Soooo...I'm making a decision in the next week or so about what to do with the Viper. Over the last 10-12 years, I've owned two nitrous cars, three positive displacement blower cars, three turbo cars and a centrifugally supercharged car (a Novi 2k, coincidentally).
When I initially bought the Viper, I had planned on a Roe. About 11-years ago, I put a Kenne Bell blower on a Mustang GT I owned. The blower was silent, and the car was an absolute blast on the street. It didn't make the peak numbers that the Vortech or Paxton cars made, but it ran very well and felt stronger than those cars in regular driving. Albeit, it was slower at the track, and there was a limit to the amount of power that compressor could support. With my experiences with the E55 and my '03 Cobra, I've grown to like the instant boost of these types of blowers. My Cobra made 710rwhp last Friday during initial tuning on a new setup...so they'll make decent power.
So now UGR comes out and offers a package for $15k, installed and tuned, that'll make (and let's not let this thread turn into a pissing contest about claimed numbers) 900rwhp on pump gas. This is a solid ~250rwhp more than I could expect out of a Roe with minor bolt ons (headers, rockers, etc.) on meth at 10-12psi. However, I'm willing to bet the Roe car probably "feels" stronger, but won't put up the numbers at the track that the Paxton car will. I don't plan on turning the car into a track whore. I didn't buy it for that, but I plan on racing it when time permits.
So it's your money and your car...~$10-11k for the Roe and supporting hardware, install and tuning or $15k for the Paxton setup?
And uhh...let's not bring TT's into the discussion. I don't want to TT the car.
S.
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'98 GTS, red...blown...not built by a furniture moving man in a wood-frame garage...
Having owned both eaton and vortech cars (and a whipple truck) I would say this is a very difficult decision. I too prefer the instant on torque of the positive displacement blower and think for a car that will not see redline all that often the Roe is a very good choice.
If you want to hit the track hard but still want the positive displacement behavior on the street you may consider the Roe with a nitrous system for the track. I don't know a lot about that and it may be very hard to tune, but it may be the best of both worlds.
I'd prefer not to run nitrous on top of boost. I've been that route before, and honestly, with a big V10, I think you should be able to get it done with boost only.
I agree Doc...I'm sure the Roe is a blast to drive.
S.
I think you should be able to get it done with boost only.
So that brings up the real question: What does "getting is done" mean to YOU?
Decide what your goals are (I know you are more advanced than the idiots that just want to say they have a 1000hp car). If you will be happy to run 10's with DRs then go with the Roe. If you want to run 10's with street tires on 20 inch dubs then you need to go with the Paxton. If you want an incredible street car either will do.
Personally, if Roe can get their act together for the SRT I will really be considering it as it fits my driving style.
Both systems are great and it would be hard to choose. My Roe system (for sale BTW) made my Viper drive perfect with the low 600's rwHP with stock heads. To get to the 650's you will need better than stock heads with the Roe, but these heads will be good for going to any other system if you decide later on to change systems.
(I was told some things by a Viper Tech that lead me to believe I needed to check my creampuff pistons for damage and that would be a good time to change them to forged pistons and upgrade the rest of the internals at the same time. He advised me to go with a tuner that almost totally f@cked up my car. My original pistons had no damage to them and didn't need to be replaced. I later found out the Viper Tech is friends with the tuner and appears to still be taking orders from the tuner's wife. The good news is that the Roe system caused no damage and the rumors appears to be false.)
I did miss having a top end that matches the low end with the Roe, though in retrospect the Roe's top end is plenty strong.
Underground Racing inspected and repaired my Viper and told me that getting the power the other tuner had promised me I would need to replace the Roe with the Paxton and I said OK. I have a lot more than the basic UGR Paxton setup with parts I bought for the Roe with the other tuner - mostly the Jeff Morys Striker heads. Underground matched everything to run right and give me a margin of safety and came up with the wonderful car I have now.
The low end is almost as strong as the Roe and the top end is way beyond anything I ever imagined. The car is very smooth running and drives almost like a stock Viper in traffic - only the engine sound and 1,000 RPM idle gives it away that it's not stock.
I also feel very secure in the fact that Underground Racing built my Viper and that means a lot after the hell I've gone through with the other tuner. I trust Underground's judgement on what parts go together right and their tuning.
__________________ Kenny's Viper built and tuned right by Underground Racing 1,021 rwHP and 955 rwTorque using catalytic converters and 93 octane pump gas - 20.0 MPG HWY and a whole lot less driven normally!
So that brings up the real question: What does "getting is done" mean to YOU?
Decide what your goals are (I know you are more advanced than the idiots that just want to say they have a 1000hp car). If you will be happy to run 10's with DRs then go with the Roe. If you want to run 10's with street tires on 20 inch dubs then you need to go with the Paxton. If you want an incredible street car either will do.
Personally, if Roe can get their act together for the SRT I will really be considering it as it fits my driving style.
It seems that the Paxton setup is going to make power easier than the Roe, be faster without working as hard and probably allow me to have enough of an abundance of power without having to put DR's or DOT's on it to run 10's (which is more than enough to get you kicked off the track unless you're doing rentals only).
Now...if Roe was using a larger compressor capable of supporting more power, it might be more competitive (from a power standpoint) with the Paxton.
S.
My Roe setup has been fantastic for me. It has been a few years since I first decided to go with the twin screw, and at that time I thought 650rwhp or so would be all I ever wanted. Needless to say I was wrong and I assume I am pushing the Roe close to its max without using nitrous. So I would consider how much power you think is "good enough." If you think 650 or so is all you need, go with a Roe. IMO, If you want to make around 800-900rwhp, do it with a more efficient supercharger like the Paxton. In the end you can push a lot more out of the Paxton easier and cheaper than a Roe.
There are qualities I like and dislike about both, just way your options and decide what the main purpose of the car will be.
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96 GTS - Roe S/C - 753rwhp, 794rwtq
Built and tuned by Macedo Motorsports
Go with the Paxton. The Autorotor cant be competitive because it cannot be intercooled in this application. Even if you could get a 2.8H kit for the Viper, like you state, heat issues on the street will still remain.
Imagine if your 03 was pulling one degree of timing from the 23 degrees max commanded at WOT in your current tune after every pull because of the IAT2 readings. Low end TQ also isnt a problem with the V10 like the horrible 4.6L low end.
Hey Sean, You can wait to drive mine when it comes back from ugr but then you wont get that great Gary Almond special to ride down with mine... 900 vs. 650??? are we really having that discussion now????? I know the Roe TQ is great but 900 vs. 650 bro. COME ON. It is no comparison Sean. The Paxton is the better choice for you, I know what you want, the Roe will be ok for the first couple of stomps but when we both go for a roll and I make you look like your in the wrong gear. You would have known all along what I did was the right move. If I wanted to run with 600-650 my car would have the roe blower on it, NO QUESTION. I know it will not be enough to satisfy me though.
I have the Roe on my car and wish I TTed it, but Roe verses Paxton I will STFU and sit back as I never drove the Paxton. I would feel more comfortable with a company that has more than 1 person that knows how to tune their unit however, but then again, that is just my two cents. I can see my car going TT or being sold within a few years and after I buy my FGT, it might be sooner-lol.
I have the Roe on my car and wish I TTed it, but Roe verses Paxton I will STFU and sit back as I never drove the Paxton. I would feel more comfortable with a company that has more than 1 person that knows how to tune their unit however, but then again, that is just my two cents. I can see my car going TT or being sold within a few years and after I buy my FGT, it might be sooner-lol.
Gary, I assume you were referring towards the paxton when you commented on the tuning issue. You are wrong. Many tune them perfectly. UGR, Heffner, DLM, RSI, and more work or have worked extensively with the paxton. Seems to me that I hear more people fumbling with their tuning on the vec/roe then the paxton running aem etc...
The Roe can do more than the 600-650. With a PBJ tune I put down 719RWHP with cats, 3:55's, and only 10lb. It could be close to the 750 mark with a few changes. Now that is getting to the limit of the Roe and you will be all done. With a good driver and tires this set up should be low 10's and maybe a high 9. This will cost as much as the UGR set up. So if they can do that all installed for 15k seems like a no brainer.
V10King, When was your car delivered and when do you expect getting it back?
Car is being picked up by Gary Almond on Nov. 4th. It should be back in under 2 weeks but Kevin was told to keep it as long as he needed. You don't really want to rush these things, you know.
Last edited by v10kingsnake : October 18th, 2007 at 08:13 PM.
Between the two... go with the Paxton set up. I've been in a few Roe cars both and driven a DLM Paxton set up. I did a few pulls ranging from 10-70, 25-87ish, and a 40-100ish pull and the power/pull never stopped coming in all gears. Yeah the low end feels good on the Roe especially with a little No2 under it, but the mid to high end power on the Paxton blows it away and like Kenny said.. a well set up Paxton will still have almost as strong low end as the Roe. So I'd say Paxton for the hands down choice in this case.
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Atheists can't find God for the same reason Bank robbers can't find a Police Officer.
- Kent Hovind
A LITTLE faith, with ALOT of God's favor is all you need to succeed.
650 rwhp Roe or 900 rwhp Paxton?
