Okay, here is the update as of 1:53 AM. Just got home a few hours ago and was thinking just go jack that bitch up and peek at it. I jacked it up, looking for any visible problem and I did notice something right away with the car off and me squeeing under it on 4 jack stands. Apparently, unless passanger side factory headers are dented in, #10 header cylinder got dented bad when the trans was out, and #8 has a slight dent. Apparently, my friend who owns the shop did not support the motor fully and the #10 header pipe got whacked in against the frame. I'm not sure if that is leaking there (although there is a noticable exhaust leak now) as I was alone, but anyhow it sure as shit looks obstructed and I don't mean a ding restricting 10% of air flow, I mean like 50%+ restricted on #10 cyl and 10-20% on #8 cyl. So that might explain the slight miss and running not 100%, and the insulation on the factory headers that is on there looks almost pinned against the frame side. I have my new TNT's to install and was going to put on a full exhaust, but I want to probe further. I did pull #8 and #10 spark plugs to compare and they looked identical, but didn't puill the rest, but I know they are not running right albeit no codes thrown. Note, I did not drive this long at all like this, less than 50 miles for sure. This car shakes at idle, this much I know, and although that headers pipe can explain a lot, I think there is something else wrong. I can even feel it when the starter engages the engine, so I am leaning towards the mounts, and I notced one mount is slighly higher than the other mount on that groove so I will loosen and try to pry bar it down.
So here are my questions:
Can I pull 2000 GTS factory headers from the top okay and leave the hood on? Looks like I can, and if so, I will just hang my complete exhaust myself here after I get two bungs welded on. Passanger side looks like it will be a royal bitch unfortunately....
Should I replace entire exhaust, adjsut motor mount down on the one side to be at same height as other mount (up 1/4") and go from there? I mean even if something was drastically wrong, the exhaust would go in and all I would do is have to pull motor as if the heads come off, the bottom is getting redone too.
Side sills I see the bottom screws, but is that a 10 minute job as it looks, or is that hard to come off? Any hints?
No Viper for a few weeks as I will do my MSD fuel booster now and some other stuff since I have it all jacked up. I want a lift, but it is what it is-lol.
if there are typos and such, I am tired as hell and just ungreased myself. thansk for all the advice, but this is ghetto garage here on my back, but anyhow just redid my garage last year with mounted drop lights, epoxy painted floors, workbench with grinders, vise and such so it makes stuff easier even though I don't have a lift like the rich guys
Off to sleep and planning on ordering the Random tech exhaust instead of my Borla-any ideas on best price? Called Jon B and got a price, but I have to say that I would like an alternative for ordering
Gary
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Now that the prices of virtually everything are going up and up and now that thousands of people are losing their jobs everyday as the US goverment still hands out 10,000+ checks to those people just getting off the boat, I think I will take a boat ride and get in line, I sure could use the money to pay for the gas in my Viper and GTO!
the drivers side manifold fought me harder than the other one. the passenger side is easy once ya get the blower motor/air box off. makes it a lot more accessible.
side sills are that easy to take off. i find it a lot harder to get the sill back on right.
I have a lift, but I'm far from rich.. it's outside on a 12X20 slab, wide open. Wish I could afford a garage like you rich guys! Been in the 100's here for 3 days straight!
Any chance you can get a video of the car running? It's real hard to diagnose based on description alone.
I had the exact same damage to that area of the stock header on a 2000 GTS, it was caused by a bad drivers side motor mount. The car had no vibration or noticeable miss but the header was partially restricted. I installed a bellanger system and noticed a considerable more clearance in that same area.
I live in south jersey, if I can be of any help PM me.
Okay, here is the update as of 1:53 AM. Just got home a few hours ago and was thinking just go jack that bitch up and peek at it. I jacked it up, looking for any visible problem and I did notice something right away with the car off and me squeeing under it on 4 jack stands. Apparently, unless passanger side factory headers are dented in, #10 header cylinder got dented bad when the trans was out, and #8 has a slight dent. Apparently, my friend who owns the shop did not support the motor fully and the #10 header pipe got whacked in against the frame. I'm not sure if that is leaking there (although there is a noticable exhaust leak now) as I was alone, but anyhow it sure as shit looks obstructed and I don't mean a ding restricting 10% of air flow, I mean like 50%+ restricted on #10 cyl and 10-20% on #8 cyl. So that might explain the slight miss and running not 100%, and the insulation on the factory headers that is on there looks almost pinned against the frame side. I have my new TNT's to install and was going to put on a full exhaust, but I want to probe further. I did pull #8 and #10 spark plugs to compare and they looked identical, but didn't puill the rest, but I know they are not running right albeit no codes thrown. Note, I did not drive this long at all like this, less than 50 miles for sure. This car shakes at idle, this much I know, and although that headers pipe can explain a lot, I think there is something else wrong. I can even feel it when the starter engages the engine, so I am leaning towards the mounts, and I notced one mount is slighly higher than the other mount on that groove so I will loosen and try to pry bar it down.
So here are my questions:
Can I pull 2000 GTS factory headers from the top okay and leave the hood on? Looks like I can, and if so, I will just hang my complete exhaust myself here after I get two bungs welded on. Passanger side looks like it will be a royal bitch unfortunately....
Should I replace entire exhaust, adjsut motor mount down on the one side to be at same height as other mount (up 1/4") and go from there? I mean even if something was drastically wrong, the exhaust would go in and all I would do is have to pull motor as if the heads come off, the bottom is getting redone too.
Side sills I see the bottom screws, but is that a 10 minute job as it looks, or is that hard to come off? Any hints?
No Viper for a few weeks as I will do my MSD fuel booster now and some other stuff since I have it all jacked up. I want a lift, but it is what it is-lol.
if there are typos and such, I am tired as hell and just ungreased myself. thansk for all the advice, but this is ghetto garage here on my back, but anyhow just redid my garage last year with mounted drop lights, epoxy painted floors, workbench with grinders, vise and such so it makes stuff easier even though I don't have a lift like the rich guys
Off to sleep and planning on ordering the Random tech exhaust instead of my Borla-any ideas on best price? Called Jon B and got a price, but I have to say that I would like an alternative for ordering
Gary
Gary, Please post a picture of your dented factory headers.
I have a set of stockers that came off something that are dented like you describe.
BTW, you can always call me if you have any questions! Paolo
The stock headers have crips in them. Yes. So this may or may not be normal.
You CAN remove the headers and exhaust w/o removing the hood. But I will tell you that all things on vipers are easier w/ the hood off. And to remove the hood, it takes 3 min and 2 guys. Or 3 guys if you are from NJ. And that includes the one to talk about being a cheap jew.
But seriously, i would suggest removing the hood. Hell, i've had the babysitter help me remove the hood. easy as pie. And call me if you get in a bind!
The stock headers have crips in them. Yes. So this may or may not be normal.
You CAN remove the headers and exhaust w/o removing the hood. But I will tell you that all things on vipers are easier w/ the hood off. And to remove the hood, it takes 3 min and 2 guys. Or 3 guys if you are from NJ. And that includes the one to talk about being a cheap jew.
But seriously, i would suggest removing the hood. Hell, i've had the babysitter help me remove the hood. easy as pie. And call me if you get in a bind!
You might want to consider a different exhaust. There is alot of drone with the RandomTech cat back system. I'm missing my cats so that may affect the drone. Also getting the side sills off is the easy part, getting them back on over the randomtech mufflers is, well, let's just say it wasn't easy!! If removing the stock insulation wouldn't cause a problem, I would have done that. Then the sills would go on no problem.
Okay guys, here is the update, but before I give that to you I want to say thank you to all for their constructive input. I started at 4 PM and finshed at 9 PM working on my car with my girlfriend helping me. We pulled off all the exhaust system from headers to tailpipes. There were 4 pipes dented in at the headers, one much worse than the pictures. The problem is the pipes were not leaking anywhere that I saw, yet I heard it when it was running. I still do not think that was the problem, but the good news is with the exhaust out of the way, it is much easier to see! I did the headers with the hod on and frankly it was a joke taking it all off. We spent more time getting tools and fighting that copper looking clamps that kicked my tail in getting off (never saw those before).
I cannot put my new headers and exhaust on until I get the new exhaust from the headers back and the header gaskets. In the meantime, I will look closely at the mounts and see if anything is hitting as the new mounts were higher than my stock mounts and I might be hitting at the tunnel at the top. I don't know what to do otherwise., but I know when the starter kicks in, I feel it and never felt it before but that could just be the new mounts or it could point to the engine/trans hitting somewhere too. I have a few pics and I can upload so you guys can see my little garages and set up and such, and I should be able to do that by Monday.
I started it before I took out the plugs (all 10 looked identical, so I do not think there is a cyl problem), and noticed the same shit. The little headlight aimers were jumping around. The exhaust, yes it was leaking some but I think it is the mounts making the motor hit maybe as it was just too much jumping with it running. Either way I was redoing the exhaust, but this motor would be a cinch to pull and redo compared to pulling my GTO motor. As for putting headers on my GTO, call it 12 hours (pull the engine) as they are BIG pipes, scatter shield, AC, et cetera.
Anyhow, that is my update but my gut is telling me that all that vibration wasn't form my exhaust, but I could be wrong. I'm getting a few bungs welded on for my wide band Innovate to hook into my vec2 for logging, so I hope that can show IF anything is wrong. I plan on doing a compression test to see if there are any inconsistencies in each cyl. Any other suggestions, please shoot. I will also take my serp belt off if I get it together to see if it is the blower maybe? Then out comes the trans again... I could make this a 1500+ HP machine if something is really wrong, and that is on the table but I'd like to keep this my daily beater and want it to get back on the road ASAP. Anyone know where to get a Random tech exhaust from a dealer that isn't mean, nasty, arrogant and has the time of day please LMK. I am so disappointed in some of the vendors in the Viper community it makes me want to get into the business and start my own shop and start selling parts. It surely isn't hard with capital, business acumen, Viper knowledge and time and sounds more appealing by the minute. I fix laptops and such and it has done me well, but just thinking out loud. Back to my problems, any suggestions feel free to keep firing and thank you all again for taking the time to reach out.
I highly doubt that a pinched header would cause an engine to shake as well. I am guessing that you have two plug wires switched. That would explain the miss, the shake, and the plugs would still be getting enough spark to burn fuel off the plug even without being timed right with the compression stroke. I have seen this done many times and it is always overlooked as it is too simple. Or maybe not.
I will check the wires at the coils to see if some got knocked or the like, but the wires to the plugs were perfect. I even checked them twice. I will find it however, I never got my ass kicked by an engine before but small shit kills me sometimes like this crap. I dunno WTF is wrong with this, but anyhow just letting you know I checked the wires already :-) TY
Did a compression test with 4-5 spins of the motor. now the heat shields for the plugs were in, so I screwed it in with the hose and anyhow it isn't perfect as it might have been not 100% "tight" per se, but for the interest of cylinder comparison, I think it was good seating. To clarify, it was tight with the gauge hose but not wrenched down so 1 PSI might have gotten through or so. The LOWEST cyl was 140 and the highest was 152 and I rested that cyl and got a 149 and then a 145 so anyhow, all were certainly within 8% with the mean at 147 PSI. Some were 4 spins, but anyhow not a scientific test, but anyhow good. There was a slight noise I heard 3 times while cranking and it sounded like a pop or a click, but it was when I was testing different clyinders on the even bank. I know my GTO motor makes weird noises when just cranking sometimes. Think I should do a leak down? I spin the motor for 12 spins with the plugs pulled and igntion off and didn't see the motor shaking really. I again checked the front and sides of the motor and also the back and I see nothing hitting and the wires on the coil packs seem okay too.
I can also pull the valve covers and install my new T&D's (used ones) while I inspect as right now I have stock MOPAR rockers on there. The good news is I can inspect while I put them on, the bad news is there is another variable in the mix.....
Your motor is fine. The compression test is normal. you can waste your time on a leakdown if you want but i wouldn't bother... there is something else causing the vibration. If you had an engine 'problem' it would have manifested
