You are an ass...what is so nice about the Viper...I have one and while fun, I don't think it's any better in quality than "a shit box mustang." Do everyone a favor and go hang yourself you fucking prick.
Im using dual 38mm wastegates vented to atmosphere. Should do quite well. So your answer is NO they don't need to be super larger.
Dual 38mm is fine for 1000 hp. More power then the stock bottom end viper engine can handle.
SVS also uses dual 38mm without any probs.
Andy, Why didn't you tell me I could have been running 38mm wastegates INSTEAD of 44's
I could be saving a ton of money(my cost of almost $300.00 per system!)
I also have an easier time fabricating/fitting the smaller wastegates and everything................ ?
P.S. have you tried to run some big boost after shifting into 5th gear and pulling it to redline in 5th?
The 44's are better than the 38's no matter how you cut it.
They work better for low boost Viper motor applications and are much nicer to work with for the average DIY guy with the V-Band connections than the Tial 38mm bolted flanges!
I have done it on V8's before from complete scratch with success after a little trial and error. Blew a head gasket once on a stock 5.0 on my first build. I was happy putting down slightly over 400rwhp using nothing but junkyard parts and spending less then a grand. Built several of the turbo 2.3 ford motors also with great success.
A DIY system is just that, DIY so someone doesn't have to pay for labor. Why figure that in? That's how guys on a tight budget can afford to do setups that normally only people with money can have.
Why the hate? Why not help educate some if I am so far off. Why are you trying to say that turbo setups are mystical as soon as it's put on a viper? The BB V8 guys can build 600-700rwhp engines on junk yard parts reliably running close to the same cubes. Why all of the sudden when a Dodge push-rod V-10 comes into the equation that its impossible to do?
Isn't their a thread on here where a single turbo setup for a SRT-10 truck is selling for right around 5k? Granted with a TT setup you double the parts, but even then it should come no where close to 10k IF you don't include labor.
I have said it before, and ill say it again. Paulo system is a GREAT system, specially for the price for what looks like a bolt on kit.
I'm not going to sit here in get in a pissing match about this with guys that are "Master" viper technicians. I have only limited time actually working on vipers, but have worked on numerous other cars. I'm willing to learn and experiment, but it's very frustrating when the guys with knowledge try and keep their "secrets" to themselves. I personally would like to think that the guys with a good amount of knowledge would be willing to share to let the technology grow to better the community, and not just say "Throw a lot of money my way, or it will be complete garbage"
You asked "Why the hate?"... based on the responses you've gotten so far, it's all good from what I saw. If these guys hate you, you probably won't last a couple of post.
I'm sure you can build a Viper TT system for less than $7K.
Andy, Why didn't you tell me I could have been running 38mm wastegates INSTEAD of 44's
I could be saving a ton of money(my cost of almost $300.00 per system!)
I also have an easier time fabricating/fitting the smaller wastegates and everything................ ?
P.S. have you tried to run some big boost after shifting into 5th gear and pulling it to redline in 5th?
The 44's are better than the 38's no matter how you cut it.
They work better for low boost Viper motor applications and are much nicer to work with for the average DIY guy with the V-Band connections than the Tial 38mm bolted flanges!
Besides, if one were planning on upgrading the motor and fuel system for bigger power at higher loads, the 38's will not get it done!
The guy stated will smaller wastegates work for low boost setups looking for around 800rwhp tops and the answer is yes 38mm wastegates will work without any boost creep. Probably on your kits you would get boost creep b/c your wastegates are routed back close into the dump pipe but for my kits they are vented to atmosphere and have no issues. Thus making my kit that much more efficient for a street setup.
So your saying 38mm won't work at all for stock engine setups? I hope not.
The guy stated will smaller wastegates work for low boost setups looking for around 800rwhp tops and the answer is yes 38mm wastegates will work without any boost creep. Probably on your kits you would get boost creep b/c your wastegates are routed back close into the dump pipe but for my kits they are vented to atmosphere and have no issues. Thus making my kit that much more efficient for a street setup..
Andy, my sidemount TT system dumps the wastegate into the atmosphere rather than plumbing it back into the exhaust like you are incorrectly assuming.
Have you run your setup with the 38's making more than 800 RWHP on the street yet going balls out in 4th and 5th gears yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
So your saying 38mm won't work at all for stock engine setups? I hope not
Viper owners want the best they can get for their money, they are not interested in if you THINK/HOPE the38's MIGHT be good enough.
1. The Tial 44's I use are a much better choice for 488 cubic inches for low boost than the 38's.
2. If you're touting your system is capable of making 1200 RWHP, the 38's definitely will not be up to the task.
==> Why skimp when for a few $$$$$$$ more you can bypass the large volume of gases at low boost and not have boost creep at higher boost/power/load levels?
You can do what you want with your system but you're starting at a disadvantage in design, functionality and upgradeability.
But since this is my dads car and wanted a good street setup I opted for some T4 57 trims. Those are capable of 1000 hp tops at the crank.
Getting 44mm tial wastegates would be way overkill for those turbos. 38mm will do the job. They do a great job on the 3.8L engines I build so I figure double that Is what you get close to the viper displacement.
If he does decide to go bigger well guess what im a fabricator and can easily weld on some Tial 44mm flanges.
And just so you know why are you putting low boost into the equation. You must think that in order to run low boost the wastegates work harder by venting more air out to control boost. But you failed to realize at higher boost settings the engine gets more power which means it gets a lot more exhaust flow.
Thats why they rate wastegates by power and not by boost settings.
Don't make me school you even more lets just put this topic to rest.
But since this is my dads car and wanted a good street setup I opted for some T4 57 trims. Those are capable of 1000 hp tops at the crank.
Getting 44mm tial wastegates would be way overkill for those turbos. 38mm will do the job. They do a great job on the 3.8L engines I build so I figure double that Is what you get close to the viper displacement.
If he does decide to go bigger well guess what im a fabricator and can easily weld on some Tial 44mm flanges.
And just so you know why are you putting low boost into the equation.
Are you asking me a question here?????
You must think that in order to run low boost the wastegates work harder by venting more air out to control boost. But you failed to realize at higher boost settings the engine gets more power which means it gets a lot more exhaust flow.
Thats why they rate wastegates by power and not by boost settings.
Don't make me school you even more lets just put this topic to rest.
Andy, you really need to understand how wastegates work before you can school anybody on the matter!
On low boost settings, as the RPM's go towards redline, there is proportionately more exhaust gas that needs to be bypassed than what needs to be bypassed at higher boost levels with a given wastegate valve surface area.
Get it?
That's why the larger surface area of the valve on the 44 will allow a higher flow rate for exhaust gases to be bypassing the turbo to maintain the " Low Boost".
Most of the street Vipers on pump gas will be running "Low Boost" ie 8-12 PSI.
That is why this is so important.
I am sure you can datalog your boost pressures with the AEM when you get your car running instead of communicating what you have not learned thus far.
I have spoken with several guys who have had 38's on a Viper and they boost creeped even with a good inlet to the wastegate off the up pipe.
Do yourself a favor and post less and come back with real world datalogs and I guarantee if you switch to a 44 you will have better results.
I personally have no problem slapping on, "junkyard" turbos on a simple DIY system. Will I get the best performance? No. Will I hit my desired goals for considerbly less money? Yes.
I sure can't have my mustang putting down more power then a viper
Don't have time to read the whole thread but I caught that last part. And my question is why with Vipers? Even for R/D purposes if you have "no problem" putting sub par turbo's on a Viper you're in the wrong mindset. Thats like if I built up a 6K road race bike with top of the line everything, but put lousy cranks on it to test. Why? Test things right the first time with quality parts so that way you keep things on more of an even keel throughout the tests.
Sure you could have the stang put more power then the Viper, but I bet the Viper will last longer and have better drivability.
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