Anybody Using 160lb injectors w/ AEM EMS and Injector Driver

[Earl H]

Looking to upgrade injectors to go with my plans for upgrading my turbo system. I am currently running a Weldon 2025A fuel pump, -10 feed, -8 return braided lines, top feed fuel rails and Mototron 60lbers with an AEM EMS controlling it all. The pump will support ~ 1500hp at 40psi (regular gas) and ~ 1000hp on (E85). The injectors should be good to 1000rwhp on regular gas (at 60+psi fuel pressure) . However they are probably only good to 700rwhp or so on E85. I want to be able to run E85 up to 1200rwhp (TT system max). At that level the 96lbers will support ~ 1000rwhp @ 40psi on E85. I thinking of doing 160lbers...just to make sure that I'll never have to upgrade again. My questions is, has anyone used 160lbers on a Viper. How is idle quality and driveabillity? Btw, I plan on using the AEM injector driver.

[Final GTS]

Tried... could never get the thing to even start with them without either being off or flooding the damn engine. Yes, I was running an AEM P&H driver.

96 lbers idle at about .6-.8ms, 160's will be around .3-.5... apparently too small to control effectively at ~55 PSI.

Only option would be to run a vacuum referenced fuel controller that lowered the fuel pressure to nil under vacuum, that would help

some, but getting the thing to crank without flooding would be quite fun!

EDIT: (See Below)

[Heffner Performance]

I have used them on several cars and have been able to achieve stock like drivability.

[Earl H]

Originally Posted by Heffner Performance

I have used them on several cars and have been able to achieve stock like drivability.

Care to share some of your learnings?

[Final GTS]

Originally Posted by Earl H

Care to share some of your learnings?

Yep, certainly interesting to hear someone had success with them... makes me wonder now WTF happened. The car runs fine w/96s, but the 160's just kept flooding it out.

EDIT: It just hit me what happened. The 96's must have just masked the issue that I found later, where the 160's never even let me start the thing to find it in the first place. The AEM P&H driver pulses the injectors if it is supplied power BEFORE the injectors have power. I later changed the power source for the control relay to something which gets power after ASD, rather than before. This was causing a stumble on the 96's, and was corrected, but certainly would explain the original 160's flooding right out when cranking...

Shit... wonder if they would work if I went back and tried them now?

[UnderGroundRacing.com]

Originally Posted by Heffner Performance

I have used them on several cars and have been able to achieve stock like drivability.

same here they work great..

[Earl H]

Originally Posted by UnderGroundRacing.com

same here they work great..

Which brand of injector? 2.3 or 5 ohm? ...I am reading that it makes a difference. Anyone care to share a cal file (injector settings only). I want to make sure that I can get them to idle and run smoothly before I take the plunge.

[wesman]

160#??? Holy fuel tuning batman

--wes

[DynoDaddy]

I run 96 lb/hr. Idles and starts like stock. I don't think I will need anymore power than what these injectors will allow. I think they are good for roughly 1700crank horsepower.

[Earl H]

Your 1700hp on gas is ~ 1,200fwhp on E85 or ~ 1000rwhp. The reason for considering the larger injectors, is that I want to run E85, which you'll need about 30% more flow vs. gas. I am really intrigued by E85 as it has 105+ octane rating and won't foul your 02's vs leaded race guess. The down side is that I'll need more injector to run eqivalent hp. I could pump up the fuel pressure so that the 60lbers will flow like 85s(ok in my current TT config.), but then my pump becomes the weak link if I want to explore higher hp levels in the new config.


I am really starting to get the hang of the AEM tuning (mostly improving part throttle stuff... cruise/idle AFRs and stuff), but still learning with a lot of help from a few gracious people. That being said, I am trying to get a feel for the problems that I'll encounter as I try to move to the larger injectors. The 96lbers would probaby be all that I'll ever need, but it costs the same...so the real issue is driveability/tuneability/compromises in going from the 60's to the 96's/160's.

[DynoDaddy]

I think your math is a little hazy. I have made 1100+ rwhp on E85 with my 96lb'rs. The duty cycle was around 80% if I remember correctly.

[Earl H]

Originally Posted by DynoDaddy

I think your math is a little hazy. I have made 1100+ rwhp on E85 with my 96lb'rs. The duty cycle was around 80% if I remember correctly.

Math

((10 * 96)/.55 (bsfc)*.7 (E85 requires 30% more flow)* .85 (drivetrain loss) = 1,038 rwhp

Now if one of my factors is wrong, let me know.... however this goes to show that real world and theoretical aren't always the same. What is your comlete fuel setup?

[DynoDaddy]

Looks like I am running higher efficency than .55 then???

I have Bosch 044's pump into a swirl tank. An Aermotive Pro feeds off of that tank to the rails. -12 to pump, -10 to fuel rails, -8 return.

The aeromotive pro on low speed can support exactly 1010 rwhp - 93 octane on my setup.

The pump eats another 9rwhp when going from low speed to high speed.

[The Former PFR]

Originally Posted by DynoDaddy

Looks like I am running higher efficency than .55 then???

More than likely a little low of an estimate given a ginormous turbo.

[Earl H]

What fuel pressure?

[DynoDaddy]

45psi base fuel pressure is what I run. I was running right at a .95-1:1 pressure ratio with this turbo and the other A/R housing. This helped the efficency quite a bit. I have not checked what my presure ratio is now with the revised setup.