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Real Time Logging of Ignition Timing - Accomplished

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Real Time Logging of Ignition Timing - Accomplished
Old September 22nd, 2006, 07:03 PM   #1
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Real Time Logging of Ignition Timing - Accomplished

It took a while but the goal has been accomplished, we can now log the real timing curve of the viper. We have not done any wot runs yet, but that will come as soon as the rain stops. The method uses the Innovate LMA-3, although, it can also be done with their DL32 or the new SS series unit.

I think Innovate learned as much as we did during the project. The timing function did not work when they brought it out last year and only thru listening to their customers did they get the firmware/software to work. For anyone that has a functioning Innovate system the install for timing hardware couldn't take more than four hours, on the other hand Joe Dell could do it 30 minutes.

Bascially an optical sensor picks up tdc and inturn is referenced to #1 coil pack. The timing that is logged is precise. That is the simple part, it took a whole bunch of filters and voltage dividers to get it to work.

Here are some of the uses where it might be useful:

1. To set real timing on any piggyback pcm controller, everyone with a piggy back controller is now guessing to a certain point.

2. SC, turbo and NOS cars can precisely graph the timing relative to peak torque thus pulling and adding timing exactly where needed. This would apply to NA cars, but, not as critical.

3. Does the PCM add/pull different amounts of timing for different temperatures - we will find out. If that is the case, we are going to know precisely how to modify the timing for the temperature.

4. Even those of you with a full controller like the AEM are still guessing on the timing. Perhaps the curve is ragged as a result of a faulty algorithm. Fix the curve and possibily pick up some hp under the peak.

5. Dozens (maybe more) have had or still have high speed misses in there cars, those misses are probably related to some point on the timing curve, we are going to find out and then possibly modify the timing curve to bypass the miss.

There are probably a bunch more, but, that is a start. I will compare actual timing with the VEC output and see if the changes are linear as expected. I'll post some of that info next week. What would be intertesting is get one of those cars with the high speed miss and see if the issue is associated with the timing.

--------------------
Jack B

10.2 @140 (1.7 sec 60')
1.45 (best 60')


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Old September 22nd, 2006, 08:12 PM   #2
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Wow...great work!

Hope this might develop into something.
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Old September 22nd, 2006, 09:30 PM   #3
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Jack,

Why isn't this be done with the crank signal? All you would need to do is filter the pulse and reference it to #1 plug? Am I missing something?
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Old September 22nd, 2006, 10:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Go Fast For Life View Post
Jack,

Why isn't this be done with the crank signal? All you would need to do is filter the pulse and reference it to #1 plug? Am I missing something?
The crank signal is actually the only signal in the ignition that is fairly clean. We have been trying to use it, but, no success yet. That would be far simpler, but, the relationship doesn't seem to make sense when compared to the coil pack. The problem may be in the algorithm that is intepreting the number of teeth versus the missing tooth. Single purpose device like a tach are easy to set up, once a system like this starts comparing very different signals, difficulties arise. In short we are still trying to use the crank signal. The optical sensor took a lot of work but once it was documented, it is not that hard to install.

A little further on I will post scope shots of tach signal, coil pack signal and the crank signal. Our optical sensor actually has the perfect signal.
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 01:01 PM   #5
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Jack,

Thanks. Keep us posted.
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Old September 24th, 2006, 01:54 AM   #6
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GoFast:

here is anothert thought on our crank signal. It is atypical of what you find in most cars. A crank signal typically has a missing tooth to prewarn the PCM that TDC is approaching. Our signal is merely 5 sets of two pulses that are all identical. The juxtapostion of the cam sensor signal and the crank sensor signal is how ( I think) the PCM figures TDC, that doesn't help us when we are trying to measure advance.

If I am missing something about the signal, please help.
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Old September 24th, 2006, 08:44 PM   #7
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Jack,

I don't know. I'll do some research. It sounds like this might be an interesting project.
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