For a stock 1996 through 1999 GTS engine, what is a safe HP limit when going either the SC or TT route? I guess I should say what is the most RWHP you should go with if you don’t crack the engine open? I know the average SC limit is about 650 HP but it seems like that is with other engine mods. For a TT set up where the HP can be more, is about 700 RWHP (93 pump) on a totally stock engine ok, with the possibility of say around 1,000 RWHP on race gas? I believe most people have their engines worked up when they mod the cars but if you leave the engine alone and just install adders is what I’m looking at. Thanks for any info you can give.
700+ is no problem on a forged car (96-99). Gary J's B/W GTS made just under 1000 RWHP on stock motor, and ran like a champ every time. At that point it then depends on how much $$$ your willing to spend on a TT set up.
Thanks, I wanted to get an idea if I get a GTS here very soon if I can leave the engine alone and get a TT kit. I won't have enough to buy the car, TT set up, and work up the engine. I don't need 2000 RWHP and I heard that 1000 RWHP is about the most you can use on the streets anyway. So if I can get the car running about 700 RWHP on 93 and then fill the tank up with race gas and be able to turn up the boost to the 1000 RWHP range that would be fine with me. I've talked to a few people about this already but it's always better to get the thoughts of more people a subject like this. I would only want to do something that is reliable and not going to endanger the engine or such. Thanks again.
Even with upgraded rods and pistons, after you hit the 1100rwhp mark you will have problems with the main caps and origional main bolts.
I heard that Gary Javo ran high 9XX hp on a totally stock engine, but rarely ran the car at that setting.
Keep one thing in mind. I GURANTEE it is cheaper to rebuild the shortblock before you begin running high hp levels than it will be if you break something and have to rebuild it. Blocks, cranks, and heads are FAR from cheap. If you fuck one any of them up you will be out a lot of cash.
You can now buy a set of eagle rods with L19 bolts that are rated at 1800rwhp for $600 now. You can have a VERY strong bottom end built for 5K nowadays.
__________________ '96 GTS
101MM SINGLE TURBO
1075RWHP 15psi w/93 octane
another thing you have to remember is although its easy to reach 1000rwhp, you have no idea how fast it is. From a person going from nothing to even 700rwhp will be one hell of a ride, and it will be safe to boot. Not much on the road will touch a TT viper on pumpgas at 700rwhp man, no need to go crazy with the car
The Viper is amazing at putting power to the ground. From a 60 mph punch, the Viper is easy to drive at 1,000 rwhp. I think that 1,100 rwhp is controllable from a roll on the highway. If you're going from a dead dig, 700 rwhp doesn't hook on street tires.
As far as max rwhp on stock bottom end, i'd stick around 900 rwhp and make sure it's fat and has plenty of timing pulled.
If it is warm/hot out and you have BFG drags you can put 1000+ to the ground in the top of 3rd and all through 4th. If it is below 75 degrees outside that is another story.
To all, thanks for the information. This is exactly what I was looking for (what several people think about putting a TT on a totally stock engine). I’m trying to figure out if a TT viper with a completely stock engine is ok or a total risk. With the purchase of the car and a TT set up, it will leave me with very little if any for upgraded pistons, rods, lifters, push rods and to get them installed. I don’t even want to go with a TT set up if the stock engine won’t like it, or if it makes the thing a grenade waiting to happen.
DynoDaddy, I completely understand what you are saying about building the engine up beforehand. I’m just not really sure I will be able to swing that. My plans were to possibly go the TT route and run it around 700 RWHP on 93 if it sounds like it won’t hurt the car, but be able to run race gas and turn it up to 9xx – 1000 RWHP only here and there (if it is reliable to do so). I guess I really need to think about this a little more.
I have seen a hand built factory engine handle 600+rwhp totally stock and the exact same engine out of another car with identical tuning grenaded at 470 rwhp.
You never know what a factory engine is going to do. If I could tell the future I gurantee that gift would be used on something a little more important. Hindsight is always 20/20.
What are you going to do when you put this TT kit on and destroy the engine? You had better watch out what kit you get as well. There is a tuner here on the board that every kit he sold destroyed the engine that it was on.
If you cannot swing a $5-6K built shortblock maybe that is a big sign that you should not try to make 900rwhp.
I suggest you think this through a little more. I hope this helps.
DynoDaddy,
Yes that helps and it all makes sense. When you mention a built short block, I assume you are only talking about installing new piston’s and rods only, for a 96 – 99 engine, correct? I don’t think you mean the crank. I also assume you aren’t talking about modded heads, or upgraded lifters, rods, etc……. For the price you mentioned ($5k - $6k), is that an average price to have a knowledgeable person swap out those parts, including the cost of the parts? If it were a Mustang, Camaro, or Vette engine I’d have a better idea on pricing but I don’t really know of many people that work on Dodge V10’s. Thanks again.
I've been at 750whp since 2000 on the TT setup I built on a bone stock engine that had almost 30K on it when I bought the car. This was way before the VEC2 or AEM were even available. I drive really hard and autox and drag race fairly often, where I drive even harder. I've have had no problems other than eating a transmission on drag radials, and a using up a couple of clutches. I run 93 octane pump gas with GT3040 turbos.
UGR ran 930rwhp on a stock engine with a paxton novi 2000 blower. Keep in mind a blower puts more stress on the motor than a turbo. 1000hp with a turbo should be plenty safe.
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