How much does the VCA pay Herbert and why are they covering it up?

ViperJon

And amazingly still the simple question can not be answered in public.
How much is he being paid a year?
I couldn't care less how much, but why can't it be public?
This is very disconcerting. I have been in the VCA for a couple years now, paying my dues beginning of every year. The lack of transparency on this and other funding issues is astounding. Everything has to be done in private by pm's, nothing can be just posted for all to see. It's all a secret only known to the elite.
This is my last year in the VCA.

Anaconda

To me, the point is that there are people who would do the design/maintenance for free, but there is someone who is allegedly getting a sizeable salary for it. Now, paying for the hosting is understandable, as that does cost money (granted, you could probably find someone to "donate" that for free also....), but if these allegations are true, then he is making an income, which should be disclosed.

Tom

It is admirable to say people would the site for free, and for a while, they probably would. But eventually even the officers don't want to run again, and it seems pretty normal not to want to be permanent volunteer. And if he's paid $10K a year, it sounds like a lot but you're sure not going to buy more than gas money. Well, maybe in Arkansas. And I am curious what the amount is.

>Dodge didn't buy the website; the VCA did. The VCA is not Dodge.<

Seems this the issue to think about. You can debate about clubs and dues and volunteer officers and whether people with extra time will do things for free... but paying for webmasters is just like paying the publisher for a one-make car magazine, paying into the VOIs, or donating a Viper/Ram/vehicle for the raffle. Paying for good publicity seems like a pretty simple and normal motive.

packetjunkie

The issue isn't weather he deserves it or not; it's that the payments were not disclosed to the members and, lately, that the VCA continues to obstruct any inquiry into the nature of the agreements in place (if there are any).

If the VCA wants to put someone on payroll, thats fine; but to do so and hide it is something else enitrely. These payments have been going on for years yet the members have not known about them.

I would also expect anyone under a consulting agreement would have some kind of performance expectations and be subject to review by the VCA officers.

Anaconda

Well, I think the part about whether he deserves it or not, is a factor. That site is slow as hell, and the money could be spent on a better hosting arrangement. A competent and paid webmaster should be aware of how to fix this. Now, yeah, obviously the main thing is the cover-up about the pay.

And if the VCA truly isn't doing anything wrong, I would have thought that they would have jumped at the chance to clear their names against these allegations. Instead, it seems to me that they are just hoping that the controversy dies down, and the problem is simply forgotten.

packetjunkie

The site was recently upgraded, although it took a couple years for it to happen. That said, little else has happened on that site in years (over three years, in fact); no new designs, no new features, no nothing. The question one might ask is - what were we getting for what was being paid?

There is no clear understanding of who is setting the standards; Jay will tell you that he takes direction from the VCA, but nobody at the VCA seems to know who gives Jay direction.

And, as you can see, simple questions about how much someone is getting paid quickly get buried and require twisting of arms to get answers. Hell, it's the only reason the memebrs finally got an accounting out of the VCA to begin with!

Rodney King

For those who dont know, here are some details about the origins of the Morg:

1. When the Viper came out in 1993 Jay formed the International Viper Registry. It was the first attempt at a Viper Club. the only problem with Jay trying to form his own viper club was that he didnt own a Viper. so it was his attempt to have some connection with a car he liked. he had previously been connected with some Shelby owners clubs.

2. When the real Viper Club was formed in 1995 Jay was not allowed to join since he did not own a Viper.

3. Sometime thereafter Jay registered the domain name of viperclub.org and set up one of the first car club discussion boards that i had seen. you have to give the guy credit for being ahead of the curve on this one.

4. Over time as the internet and viper club grew - viper owners started using HIS website.

5. Jay still had the burning desire to be in the VCA. he saw a need for a Viper Club in Arkansas - for the 6 or so Vipers there. so instead of buying a Viper that ran, he found a cheap Viper that had been wrecked and bought the salvage. and like waving a magic wand - he then had a Viper and a VIN number and could join the club. this was maybe 1997?

6. so by this time Jay owned a "viper". got into the VCA presidents club by starting the Arkansas VCA chapter (now mid south) and HIS viper club website was growing.

7. Jay has had many other viper owners help him with HIS website in the past. doug azerito, MP, Runnr and others. i think tony viper mad helps him today. these guys know where jay "burried the dead bodies"

8. when Jay's viper club website began to offer classified ads Jay would be the first one to see someone post a classified. if it was something he wanted or thought was a great price - he would "skim" the item off the top before any other Viper owner would see the ad. pretty nice deal for Jay.

9. then the website started taking ads from tuners, etc. well heck Jay started the website so i think he deserves to make some money right?

10. well the VCA took notice and realized they didnt own a website with their name on it. so began a relationship where Jay had some power and control over the same club that would not let him become a member just a few years before. yes i know that this sounds like some Da Vinci Code plot LOL! i guess we could call all this drama THE FLANDERS CODE!

11. guys like Jon B took note that Jay was profiting off the club on his website. and an effort was begun by the VCA to get jay to transfer the ownership of the site from him to the VCA. Jay stroked this deal for as long as he could. i am pretty sure Jay was allowed to use website revenue to cover his travel costs to VOI's and other VCA meetings that he went to - probably 2-3 trips a year. also at some point in this process the VCA did adopt Jay's website as the official club site - while he still owned it.

12. eventually Jay saw that to remain a member of the VCA good ole boys club that he would have to transer the ownership of the site to the VCA. but he surely negotiated the best deal for himself before the transer.

13. i will guess that there is a written contract for the sale and transfer. he certainly negotiated the best deal he could for himself as he had some pretty good leverage as owner of the VCA's website. this package might include:

A. payment for Jay's work from day one to the date of transfer.

B. paid out in lump sum or over time (more likely).

C. paid from the VCA treasury or from future web revenues.

but the most important thing to Jay was keeping the power and control of the site. he wanted to keep the MAGIC WAND. he wanted to be a player and a somebody in the club he tried to start back in the early 90's. he also wants to keep getting paid so it covers his costs to play with his viper and go to viper events.

i offer this information as a background and perspective to what is going on right now.

the reality is that Jay does not add any value to the VCA website. he is not a good software guy or site designer. he is not a fair or impartial moderator - he always has his own agenda and that shows in every WAVE OF THE WAND he makes at the morg.

sooner or later the vca leaders will realize that jay is far greater a liability to the organization than he is an ASSet. and hopefully this sticky will generate enough information to bring to light how poorly the VCA is managing THEIR (not Jay's anymore) website.

packetjunkie

Great write-up, Rodney.

I suspect that the VCA is fighting tooth and nail not to have to explain themselves over the past few years. It will be interesting to see how they explain the entire relationship between the VCA and Jay, what monies have been paid and under what circumstances.

They can run, but they can't hide.

DynoDaddy

How is it possible to not have an anwser by now??

ViperJon

Because very few know the truth, and them's that do ain't saying.

Rodney King

maybe a VCA member who is a lawyer can write the VCA and JR Thompson / Dodge a nicely worded letter asking them for disclosure. otherwise, I dont think they will do the right thing unless forced to do so.

Rodney King

it is my understanding that the agreement between the VCA and Jay was negotiated, entered into and signed by Steve Ferguson when he was the VCA National President. now Steve is a nice guy and one of the best guys you could know when it comes to drinking beer and cooking BBQ while watching Bears football. but he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. so it would be interesting to find out what exactly he gave Jay - and what the VCA is currently obligated to pay jay.

JGK95

I've met Steve Ferguson in person and he's a top shelf guy. Hearing him retell the origins of the club was humorous as they tried and tried to figure reasons for why they should 'not' start the club. And Some years later, here we are!



Jay K.

packetjunkie

I know Steve as well, great guy - we used to do some things together back when I was a member of the IL VCA - Steve and I put together the VCA/Extreme Bikini Team charity events at Hooters for a few years.

ViperJon

Well this thread died out, and the initial question was never answered. It was an interesting read on the history of the VCA however, thanks for that.

John Hennessey

Knowing Packetjunkie, I dont think this thread is going to go away without some answers.

packetjunkie

No skin off my back; I figure those who are interested in knowing will push for full disclosure and the story will be told. I was clear from the beginning that payments were being made and we now have an admission that this is true; now it's up to the VCA to come clean on how much and to justify it.

Kenny

Apparently, the little VCA web side gig is paying pretty well. In addition to the Sanford & Son Edition junk that Flanders has been raiding the VCA classifieds to piece together for years, he apparently now has a 2003 Viper SRT-10.

packetjunkie

Funny that such a simple question is taking so long to get an answer.

Rodney King

At this point, the VCA leadership is aware of this question and is chosing to ignore it.