All the quoted info was taken from various boards with real world experience:
Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.
Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.
Quote:
Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.
The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.
At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.
In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.
I also want to point out how impressed I am with this solid roller setup. Sure it is slightly noisier than my tiny hydro cam. But you can’t argue with that sick power curve. At all boost levels the car makes peak power at 6000rpm and holds it solid until 7500rpm, I am sure it would pull up to 8000rpm no problem. Steve has also tried a larger hydraulic cam to get the same results but it just didn’t work. The cam was a comp extreme energy hyd roller: 248 @ .050 on int and exh, 114 lsa. The car also had larger 74mm turbos at the time but the power would peak at 6500rpm and drop like a rock, even with expensive valve springs. With the new small solid roller cam the car even lugs along at 1500rpm no problem and idles fine at 900rpm.
Now in DD's Thread we were discussing His A/F reading and were all generally confused as to why it was reading so high (11:1). I feel like a moron for not thinking of this sooner, but it came to me not too long ago. A/F ratios are calculated with wideband O2 sensors- DUH, they read the oxygen content in the exhaust, aka lambda. To calculate A/F for different fuels they require a different lambda multiplier. Thus why many wideband O2s can be calibrated for different fuels. So with that being said his A/F reading 11:1 (with a gas calibration) would be well in the safe range of E85, which has an idea of 9.7ish.
From what I've read it seems as thought E85 isn't nearly as corrosive as pure methanol, which is what is used in race cars etc.
DynoDaddy- What components make up your fuel system? twin 255 intank pumps? -10 feed ? What size injectors, 96, 132, 160#?
Hey Gary J- Wanna go for 1600rwhp on pump in big red?
lol, ya think Cory? Many people think the two are one in the same and have heard the stories about how corrosive meth can be. Ethanol while still moderately corrosive shouldn't require any specific equipment (teflon lines, coated fuel tanks/rail, etc)
Hey Gary J- Wanna go for 1600rwhp on pump in big red?
That sounds pretty good to me. Thanks for the info. We are just getting into ordering components (including the fuel system). Now would be the time to cater the build to this new fuel.
lol, ya think Cory? Many people think the two are one in the same and have heard the stories about how corrosive meth can be. Ethanol while still moderately corrosive shouldn't require any specific equipment (teflon lines, coated fuel tanks/rail, etc)
I do beg to differ to a degree. Our testing showed that the stock fuel system on the Honda CBR 600 F4i was eaten alive by E85. I have a feeling that some engines are much more susceptible than others.
Once everybody figures out how to run it and start tuning with it the performance consumer will demand it.
500 stations carry it now and 2500 slated by the end of the year. 2 years and it will start to thrive.
We have a Viper that we are testing that has a flex fuel sensor hooked inline with the fuel system.
The sensor will tell the Motec engine management how much percentage E85 and/or 93 is present in the fuel line.
Motec will trim and make the necessary changes to the map in order to support any % of the 2 fuels mixed together. Motec will also sense either fuel at 100% and be optimized.
In other words our customer will be able to fill up with E85 or 93 at any time.
Without changing anything he will have performance similar to race gas for much less $ a gallon
Cory- Bike fuel systems are drastically different from cars, can't really make a comparison there. From what I have seen guys did testing with E85 on rubber, silicone, and aluminum, and after being submersed for 30 days show no signs of ill effects. That and anyone really seeking the advantages don't likely have stock fuel lines/rails, so not too worried about it.
Damn Ron sounds like you guys got that setup dialed. I wasn't even aware MOTEC had provisions to automatically account for changes in fuel.
Being the prude CA is we only have one station I'm aware of and it's in San Diego
But it sure will be nice to run $2 pump fuel instead of 55gal drums of C12/16. Even if it used double the volume your still at 1/2 the price, and ya don't have to deal with moving big blue drums. One nice thing i've noticed is that most large injectors (96#+) are setup to run on pure meth so there are no worries there at all. Even if we're stuck making stainless fuel rails it's well worth the effort.
so, the verdict from the gurus on this site...is this the fuel for us??
It won't do shit for a stock car, but the more mods you have the better it will get. Providing you tune specifically for it, which you HAVE to do.
On my own personal car, if the stuff was available out here in CA, I'd be all over it. It's a much better fuel compared to 93 pump and the price is excellent.
Couple other benefits: The car will run much cooler which is a HUGE bonus on the viper. Emissions go to pretty much zero and it keeps the inside of the motor extremely clean. Less carbon, less hot spots, easier to run on the ragged edge.
Other than being difficult to find, for a high performance application I have yet to see a down side.
