Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Since we're comparing high HP Vipers and Supras here's my .02
I've owned 94 turbo Supras from 96-2003, been through everything you can think of with those cars from Harmonic balancers vibrating off, blowing two motors, and spending thousands of dollars trying to find a clutch that will hold the power without sounding like a rattling can of bolts. In addition I also used to own a dynojet center / performance shop that worked on and put out many, many single turbo Supras.. All those years of Supra ownership and I was never in the 10's, with my Viper I ran 10.2 @ 142 and took down Orlando's quickest street Supra on my 2nd pass ever at the track with stock heads and no roller rockers to boot. My car has a Roe blower, exhaust, and spray on 93 Octane. The Supra I raced had everything done to it from Virtual Works intake manifold to ported head, HKS cams, big single, race gas etc.. I was on pump gas LOL. I drove my Viper out of the garage with my HRE wheels and drag radials while the guys who had the Supra were changing tires to mount slicks, draining the tank, adding $11.00 per galloon C16, playing with the AEM, changing plugs, etc.. That was the best part for me, to drive my car out of my garage with 9,000 miles, take it to the track, win, then drive home and wash it. As for drag racing goes, the torque makes the Viper so much easier to launch, launching a 6 speed Supra is not easy, and when you come out of the hole at 7,000+RPM's slipping the clutch, I've seen carbon fiber draveshafts shatter. I'm not trying to knock on Supra's but my car is daily driveable like stock with the original factory clutch and I went low 10's just babying the car out of the hole at 1800RPM's. There isn't much comparision to me, the Viper takes the cake on visual appeal, people knock the interior but I like the Vipers seats and doors much better than that of the Supra's, sure the dash is a little cheap but that doesn't bother me much. The fact here is, when I had my Supra I was always working on it, blown vaccum lines, tuning issues, fuel pump problems, boost controller / wastegate issues, etc.. today I have so much more time to wash and wax my Viper, and I've run a full second quicker that I ever had in any of my Supras.
Here is the video of me racing the Supra I described in the story:
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
LOL, this is what I'm talking about! I knew all it took was some fuel to feed the fire! Let me try to address comments/concerns that were made here:
UGR - Kevin, I surely am looking forward to seeing the yellow and red car in action in TX!
CHAD - can you post your 6-speed slip so we can compare??? I can't wait to see how your beast runs in TX!
Gary - 1400 rwhp reliable everyday? Well, no, probably not. But that is the beauty of turbo cars, turn the boost down and run 800 rwhp everyday, that is VERY reliable for everyday driving in the Supra.
Orlando - that's b/c your car wasn't put together right. In all seriousness, I've had 8 Supras and have NEVER had the problems you describe. I've been all the way to 1132 rwhp and have never had issues with blown motors, vacuum lines, etc... Also, fuel pump and wg/bc issues are all turbo related issues, NOT Supra specific issues. Jesus will be at TX2K6, you all can line them up again at one of the quickest/fastest tracks in the U.S. :thumb:
Josh - it's a 4 day event:
Thursday - road racing at MSR Houston
Friday - dyno day at RSI
Saturday - cruise and show n' shine
Sunday - drag racing at SAR
Thanks all!
Peter
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonT
LOL, this is what I'm talking about! I knew all it took was some fuel to feed the fire! Let me try to address comments/concerns that were made here:
UGR - Kevin, I surely am looking forward to seeing the yellow and red car in action in TX!
CHAD - can you post your 6-speed slip so we can compare??? I can't wait to see how your beast runs in TX!
Gary - 1400 rwhp reliable everyday? Well, no, probably not. But that is the beauty of turbo cars, turn the boost down and run 800 rwhp everyday, that is VERY reliable for everyday driving in the Supra.
Orlando - that's b/c your car wasn't put together right. In all seriousness, I've had 8 Supras and have NEVER had the problems you describe. I've been all the way to 1132 rwhp and have never had issues with blown motors, vacuum lines, etc... Also, fuel pump and wg/bc issues are all turbo related issues, NOT Supra specific issues. Jesus will be at TX2K6, you all can line them up again at one of the quickest/fastest tracks in the U.S. :thumb:
Josh - it's a 4 day event:
Thursday - road racing at MSR Houston
Friday - dyno day at RSI
Saturday - cruise and show n' shine
Sunday - drag racing at SAR
Thanks all!
Peter
Yea Peter, so many people go through motors on Supra's.. It's not just me and it's well known that many in the Supra community keep things quiet when motors let go. Nero at Titan would always call to buy all of my old blown 2JZGTE shortblocks I had at the shop as he was going through them and his shop really does know what they are doing. Nearly everyone I know that has a Supra has blown a motor. Chris Ross aka Titanium hasn't been able to enjoy his Supra, he's flown Justin in countless times to help get his car to run right, another customer of Justin's.. Gene D has not been able to enjoy his car after investing thousands. If you haven't had headaches you're not the majority. Its nice to enjoy a fast car without worrying about things breaking for once. I can list off about 20+ people that I know whom have all blown their motors, a few were trying to get more power from pump gas and methanol.
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
I'm finally on the board! I tried a few times to register but wasn't finally verified until today. So anway....
I'm Ryan from Wide Open Throttle Motorsports in AZ. (www.WOTM.com) I have the Silver Supra that went 8.60's and 171mph.
I look forward to meeting some of you Viper guys in TX this year. I have some experience with Vipers and a lot of experience with Supras and it is infact a completely different platform. Both get the job done IF they are built correctly but each one has to be driven quite differently.
I think Adam (orlandov10) is wrong about a lot what he says about Supras and I think the majority of the people and cars he speaks about were built poorly. Just like anything, you can have all the best parts in the world and have it run like crap. Parts are only a small part of the equation. Tuning is huge and very few can tune well and make reliable power. And the whole "let's make as much power as we can on pump" is always quite comical as they are the ones MOST likely to blow their cars up.
I have a lot of respect for the Quick/Fast Vipers and I can't wait to line up in March. I have some things I want to try for the meet so hopefully I can drop some more tenth's and pick up some more mph It's never ending right???
I might even have a boosted Viper sometime in the near future...
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
People blowing Supra motors usually do so by running "race gas boost" on pump gas or bad tunning.
People are blowing Viper motors too on boost, read some of the threads here and at the morgue. And a little birdie (shop) told me they don't recommend over 1200 RWHP on stock Viper blocks as the cylinder liners begin to "walk" and get moved around resulting in serious damage.....
Personally I have only blown 2 Supra motors, one with a nitrous malfucntion where there was NO fuel injected, only nitrous and one were a fuel injector failed and took out one cylinder (both could happen to a Viper or any other car). This out of 13 Supras.
I, like Peter, have not had any of the problems you have had.
Don't get me wrong I love the Viper and the Supra both, but your experiences are not typical of well built and tuned Supras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlandov10
Yea Peter, so many people go through motors on Supra's.. It's not just me and it's well known that many in the Supra community keep things quiet when motors let go. Nero at Titan would always call to buy all of my old blown 2JZGTE shortblocks I had at the shop as he was going through them and his shop really does know what they are doing. Nearly everyone I know that has a Supra has blown a motor. Chris Ross aka Titanium hasn't been able to enjoy his Supra, he's flown Justin in countless times to help get his car to run right, another customer of Justin's.. Gene D has not been able to enjoy his car after investing thousands. If you haven't had headaches you're not the majority. Its nice to enjoy a fast car without worrying about things breaking for once. I can list off about 20+ people that I know whom have all blown their motors, a few were trying to get more power from pump gas and methanol.
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
How do you make a signature on this forum?
I've had a lot of questions about my Supra as well so I thought I'd share that the car has:
Bone stock OEM 6spd Tranny
Stock Rear end with a TRD LSD
Stock Axles
Modded stock Driveshaft
Stock control arms
Stock Motor Mounts
Stock Tranny Mounts
Stock Diff Mounts
Still has A/C parts in the car (just missing the lines)
Still has Powersteering
Still has ABS
Still has full interior
Still has a stereo as well
The only weight savings the car has was a result of the Tilton Clutch which happens to be very light. Nothing else has been taken out to save weight at all!
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlandov10
Since we're comparing high HP Vipers and Supras here's my .02
I've owned 94 turbo Supras from 96-2003, been through everything you can think of with those cars from Harmonic balancers vibrating off, blowing two motors, and spending thousands of dollars trying to find a clutch that will hold the power without sounding like a rattling can of bolts. In addition I also used to own a dynojet center / performance shop that worked on and put out many, many single turbo Supras.. All those years of Supra ownership and I was never in the 10's, with my Viper I ran 10.2 @ 142 and took down Orlando's quickest street Supra on my 2nd pass ever at the track with stock heads and no roller rockers to boot. My car has a Roe blower, exhaust, and spray on 93 Octane. The Supra I raced had everything done to it from Virtual Works intake manifold to ported head, HKS cams, big single, race gas etc.. I was on pump gas LOL. I drove my Viper out of the garage with my HRE wheels and drag radials while the guys who had the Supra were changing tires to mount slicks, draining the tank, adding $11.00 per galloon C16, playing with the AEM, changing plugs, etc.. That was the best part for me, to drive my car out of my garage with 9,000 miles, take it to the track, win, then drive home and wash it. As for drag racing goes, the torque makes the Viper so much easier to launch, launching a 6 speed Supra is not easy, and when you come out of the hole at 7,000+RPM's slipping the clutch, I've seen carbon fiber draveshafts shatter. I'm not trying to knock on Supra's but my car is daily driveable like stock with the original factory clutch and I went low 10's just babying the car out of the hole at 1800RPM's. There isn't much comparision to me, the Viper takes the cake on visual appeal, people knock the interior but I like the Vipers seats and doors much better than that of the Supra's, sure the dash is a little cheap but that doesn't bother me much. The fact here is, when I had my Supra I was always working on it, blown vaccum lines, tuning issues, fuel pump problems, boost controller / wastegate issues, etc.. today I have so much more time to wash and wax my Viper, and I've run a full second quicker that I ever had in any of my Supras.
Here is the video of me racing the Supra I described in the story:
If you have even the SMALLEST single turbo kit on a supra you will run in the 10's. Or you just suck at driving, PERIOD. If your blowing motors and shit is always breaking, then thats YOUR fault as a builder and tuner.
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Those cars are finicky, I had a small single on stock fuel and ran 11.2 @ 125 with a TS04, back then I was #18 in the country on Mark Tozers list. I never drag raced my 800HP Supra that I had in the end. I've witnessed many many cars come from different well known shops.. and I wasn't the only guy with headaches. Anytime you take a motor and push it 3-4 times what it was designed to do it's just not going to last long, Titans engine builder Lennart from Auto Shop racing engines who built a custom adapter to run Nero's 2JZGTE motors on his engine dyno would tell me about how they would stress the living crap out of that block. Nearly every local Supra owner around Orlando has blown their motors, I don't think there is much margin for error when you're running 40psi and something goes wrong... Cylinder 5 and 6 always tends to lean out due to the intake manifold design, the only way to get around that is to install a aftermarket intake manifold and a stand alone. I have seen Supras running 11:1 and wound up popping # 6 as they were running the stock intake manifold. In order to run low 10's or 9's in a Supra you have to heavily modify it and probably build the motor as its not going to last long, not the case with the Viper... I'm only pushing my car 90% over stock, thats a far cry from some of the Supra guys pushing their motors to 3 and even 4X what it was originally designed for.
Screwdrvr, you talk about 10 second times like it no problem at all, I've been to the Vegas Supra meet 4 or maybe 5 times... There were always a ton of single and twin APU cars around however I could count on one hand how many were in the 10's, this was a big contrast to my visit to Bradenton this year, 10 second times were common place. With all respect to Ryan, he owns a shop and has many more resources at his disposal, when I go to meets I like to see what ordinary owners run with their cars.. shop cars are fun to watch but the everyday owner is the grass roots of the meets.
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
The only people ive ever hear that stressed the living crap out of a supra block were Sound Performance with markos car hitting 1520rwhp and putting a hairline fracture in the block. Under 1000hp and the block is more than reliable to everyday driving, as it has been doing for the past 5 years.
Quote:
In order to run low 10's or 9's in a Supra you have to heavily modify it and probably build the motor as its not going to last long
WOW, just wow. If you cant run a 10.9 on a single supra with fuel. You cant drive, simple as that. Its not the cars fault. Also, if you cant run in the 9's on the stock shortblock(just headwork) you cant drive AND tune. 11.2's and 125mph have been run on the stock twins, even a 10.9 recently, all full wieght cars.
hell, there is even a guy (dave H) that has ran 9.4 on a stock NA shortblock. Kinda far from heavily modified.
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
And this is why we have so many single turbo Supras running 11's and 12's every year in Vegas. I know who Dave Henry is, I've been friends with him for 8 years or so, and his car has many many hours of custom fabrication, testing and tuning. I ran 11.2 @ 125 on stock fuel, not with a fuel system. You sure do get defensive when I speak of my expieriances, I've been told by many that my 10.2 @ 142 pass was a impressive time on drag radials for my Viper set up, so I don't think my driving skills are all that bad.. I out drove Jesus's Supra, even though Jesus was on slicks, beat me out off the line and had more HP than I did, I was on 18" drag radials.
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
Re: Quickest 6-Speed Street Supra vs. Quickest 6-Speed Street Viper Timesli
The bottom line is IMO, it's easy as pie to make a car run 10's and keep it daily drivable whether it be a Supra OR Viper. You just have to have it built and tuned by the right person with a decent driver. I think 9's is pretty easy too even on a stock motor in a Supra. It only takes 138-141 to run 9's in a 6spd car and making a Supra or Viper run run that mph is like getting a fat kid to eat cake
As for drag racing goes, the torque makes the Viper so much easier to launch, launching a 6 speed Supra is not easy, and when you come out of the hole at 7,000+RPM's slipping the clutch, I've seen carbon fiber draveshafts shatter. I'm not trying to knock on Supra's but my car is daily driveable like stock with the original factory clutch and I went low 10's just babying the car out of the hole at 1800RPM's. There isn't much comparision to me, the Viper takes the cake on visual appeal, people knock the interior but I like the Vipers seats and doors much better than that of the Supra's, sure the dash is a little cheap but that doesn't bother me much. The fact here is, when I had my Supra I was always working on it, blown vaccum lines, tuning issues, fuel pump problems, boost controller / wastegate issues, etc.. today I have so much more time to wash and wax my Viper, and I've run a full second quicker that I ever had in any of my Supras. 
In all seriousness, I've had 8 Supras and have NEVER had the problems you describe. I've been all the way to 1132 rwhp and have never had issues with blown motors, vacuum lines, etc... Also, fuel pump and wg/bc issues are all turbo related issues, NOT Supra specific issues. Jesus will be at TX2K6, you all can line them up again at one of the quickest/fastest tracks in the U.S. :thumb:
:thumb: