Max HP and Boost on Stock Short Block GTS/RT10 ('96-99MY)

Earl H

I'm new to the Viper mod scene and wanted to know what is generally considered the max for boost and hp for a stock short block forged piston car ('96-99). For anyone responding please post how much boost your run? Octane? How much power? How long have you run it? Any track usage?

I have searched on both boards and I've found some examples, but it doens't say if the setups/tunes are for dyno runs only or for general driving around/street pounding or racing. I am really trying to get a feel for the durability of the Viper Forged Piston Cars.

Thanks in advance for the help.

viper spray

You forgot the Fuel system , stock or lightly modded or huge?

MbnViper

stock fuel is good for about 650hp (correct me if wrong) sure more with MSD fuel pump booste

Earl H

Got the fuel system (Weldon, lines, 65lb inj.) and FI setup taken care of...just trying to get a feel for how much the stock block can take. With a 9.5:1 compression, I would think up to 12psi or so is good with pump gas and up to 15 to 16 with race gas (110octane leaded). My concern is for the quality/durability of the stock forged componenets. I've tested the limits on my old mustang and my current vette (non forged btw). I ended up moving to forged internals very quickly. I bought a '96-99 GTS because of the forged components. I'm just not sure about the Viper At what hp/boost level is it advisable to move to upgraded forged internals?

Gerald

Dunno what the max is, but I'm S/C now for about 4-5 years on a basically a stock engine.Car runs like a clock.. Just some head work. Over 800+RWHP/TQ..
Hope that helps..


G

The Former PFR

I believe that Gary Javo is running stock internals on his bike crushing beast at 900ish RWHP and 1150ish IB/Ft of torque. If I am wrong, correct me, but I think that is the truth. PM Gary, I am sure he will talk with you.

Paolo Castellano

Earl, I am sure SVS knows the answer to that question.

I would recommend the running the biggest turbo you can fit to run the lowest boost level while moving the greatest amount of air(all other things being equal of course!)

Earl H

I am not looking for absolutes but moreso rules of thumb based on experience. I know what typical hot-rod rules of thumb say.

Paulo,
My question wasn't really meant as a "How do make hp?" question. It is really aimed at durability of the stock components. I work for an OEM. When it came down to building my Z06, I simply placed a call to a number of powertrain engineers to see what the stock rods/pisons had been tested to. This post is somewhat similar, only I don't know any Dodge Powertrain engineeers. Btw, you might have a lot of insight as you have tested the limits of your block (boost, hp and timing). Can you share the results of your testing (even if your short block wasn't stock).

Paolo Castellano

Earl, I think it will depend on the tune and how you drive it.

I remember the Chrysler engineers saying that the stock crank could only handle 600 RWHP. Mine handled almost 1300 RWHP and 1500+ RWTQ through an overdriven auto.

I had Pauter rods and billet main caps and some forged pistons.

What exactly do you plan on doing with your car?

Earl H

75% street, 25% strip (1/4 mile)

Paolo Castellano

Big turbos and lower boost is the way to go for whatever power level you will be running.

Earl H

Paulo,

I appreciate your input...however, my question is more about stock block durability/strength than about turbo sizing. I am pretty confident about my ability to read a compressor map and to understand turbo sizing. Given that, I'm hoping that as many S/C guys post their expereinces as turbo guys. I'm surprised that this topic hasn't been covered much more than it has.

JZ 97 SS 1500

Run the car around 11.0AFR and keep the timing conservative, and you should easily sustain 1000rwhp with turbos. Remember turbos are alot easier on the bottom end. No side loading on the crank like a blower either. As for big turbos and low boost, well all depends. IF you use to large a turbo, then your efficiency will be low on low boost.

Jose

Paolo Castellano

Jose, I would have thought the lower efficiency would be the case at low boost, but my big turbos actually made about the same RWHP/PSI at the lower boost(around 9PSI) as it did at around 17 PSI. :thumb:

ROLLMODEL

I'm almost positive that Gary had his motor worked on. His GTS is faster than his SRT. And it doesn't seem like Gary's style to skimp out on forging a motor, especially when he is buying all the bells and whistles like AEM and what not. Gary, chime in here.

Dynoroom

Jose, Why do you think this is true? As you said it depends.

JZ 97 SS 1500

Dyno, Paolo, if you sit and read a consumption chart and cross it with some of the larger compressor maps, low boost will either get you left of the surge line or efficiency that is sub par. Granted almost all the larger turbos up to around a 76 p-trim you can run, but once you start to upgrade the exhaust side to GTQ or GTS, then you start pushing the map/island to the right.

Paolo Castellano

Jose, I understand the theory of what you are saying, but like I said earlier, from experience on my car, the GTS turbine wheel made about the same RWHP/PSI at the 9 PSI setting as it did at 17 PSI.

JZ 97 SS 1500

Paolo in some cases it will work fine. But I would dare say if you strapped a set of T70's at the lower boost you would see a little higher #, but at 17psi the GTS's would take over. Turbos will make power regardless whether in peak or non peak output, but efficiency dictates how much HP per lb of boost. We are working on some new style turbos for the crazy folks soon. I have a customer that wants a drag Viper setup. Twin T6 thumpers using Cheater GT47 turbos. Looks like he wants to try his hand at Outlaw 10.5...lol.

JZ