theres a few 183ci supras running that gt47 88mm..... one of which has made over 1500rwhp Another just made 850rwhp on pump +meth, on a horrible dyno run @ only 24psi. Both completely street cars that have driven a total of over 20k miles this year. Displacement doesn't seem to be the issue there
Except when you take into account turbo lag and a peaky power band.
There are two issue that come into play with the viper that doesn't happen with a Supra.
1.) Detonation. Due to the larger area of our positions, you can't run as much boost compared to a smaller engine. Big Block V8 guys got it worse. ci vs ci assuming all other 10 million variables are = a v-10 can handle more boost than a v8 of the same ci.
2.)rpm. The viper motor can not rev to 8500rpm-9000rpm. 6500rpm seems the best we can do without a roller cam ect.
So in-order to make up for these two huge draw backs, we need more cubes. More cubes we can get. (How the hell do you get 575ci out of a viper motor. :shocked: 9.3L if my est is right.)
Maybe I'm not like much of the viper crowd, I personally don't want to make my power on anything but pump gas and boost.
Last I check supras make about 600rwhp-650rwhp on 93 pump gas w/o the water&meth inj. But then the turbo lag is a bitch isn't it. Why don't we see more stroker supras. Just to make a point clear before an all out war starts. I'm not slamming the supra.
HKS makes a 3.4litre stoker kit, but it cost an arm and a leg, and you cant rev past 7500 if im correct. You can make more power and have a better powerband by just reving to 8500-9500rpms
Turbo lag is what people who cant shift call it
Stall, nitrous, 2-step, slipping the shit out of the clutch, those are all anti lag for us
Some may call it a horrible powerband because of the no torque or hp down low. A gt47-88mm turbo is the biggest turbo anyone has put on a supra so far, and that thing spools at around 5700-6000rpms. But when you rev to 9500, then you have over a 3500rpm powerband of 1200hp+ that you will never fall out of. during shifts. One thing we will never match is the torque numbers though..... The highest ive seen is ~950, and that was with nitrous.
HKS makes a 3.4litre stoker kit, but it cost an arm and a leg, and you cant rev past 7500 if im correct. You can make more power and have a better powerband by just reving to 8500-9500rpms
Turbo lag is what people who cant shift call it
Stall, nitrous, 2-step, slipping the shit out of the clutch, those are all anti lag for us
Some may call it a horrible powerband because of the no torque or hp down low. A gt47-88mm turbo is the biggest turbo anyone has put on a supra so far, and that thing spools at around 5700-6000rpms. But when you rev to 9500, then you have over a 3500rpm powerband of 1200hp+ that you will never fall out of. during shifts. One thing we will never match is the torque numbers though..... The highest ive seen is ~950, and that was with nitrous.
Didn't Hennessey claim they were going to put out a 542 TT with the new larger cube engines (at the time) that they were able to produce?
I don't remember the thread, but I know John posted something about it a long time ago.
Rollmodel, Maybe John did make the 542 TT but he used the T-03/T04 hybrid turbos which are way too small on the exhaust side even for the stock displacement. I think as of recently John is using bigger turbos, but I cannot say if he has combined the big turbos with the big motor.
Tanked, I think you meant the larger surface area of our PISTONS, not positions right?LOL!
I agree with wanting to make big enough poweer on just plain old 93 pump gas.
With a big enough pair of turbos and a 510CI V-10, I think it is possible to make 1000+ RWHP and 1200+ RWTQ on pump gas at around 10 PSI.
I wonder who makes a bolt-on Viper TT system that fits a pair of turbos that big???
You make a good point about the Supras needing race gas and still having lag until you hit the 3,000 RPM power band which is awesome( I have felt this in Chris Threadgill's Lexus with a Supra motor that will SPANK most of the Vipers on this site)
But if you want big power on 93, the Supra is not an option.
Custom Builder, you can get 94 in Ohio, New York and some places out that way. The Sunoco gas stations on the turnpike have it.
ScrewDrvr, I have felt both kinds of power and like them both. I think it is simply a matter of preference whether you want to always run race gas or want to be able to put in 93 and be able to go plenty fast as well!
theres a few 183ci supras running that gt47 88mm..... one of which has made over 1500rwhp Another just made 850rwhp on pump +meth, on a horrible dyno run @ only 24psi. Both completly street cars that have driven a total of over 20k miles this year. Displacement doesnt seem to be the issue there
ScrewDrvr, with meth and pump gas you have the equivalent of race fuel, so thats not really a good comparison. Now do it on 93 alone on the dyno and then slap it on the street with a real load...then were talking something impressive. I own a Supra and I know the tricks to good dyno #'s. You can lean them out nicely to make some good #'s, but on the street with that tune and a real load the engine won't last long. Also 1500rwhp, I guess you are refering to Marko's car. On boost alone he didn't make 1500rwhp.
As for others, yes bore size will make a big difference as will dwell time and rod length. Cam specs also play a huge role, and its something the Viper crowd has yet to mess with. Once again headflow is the name of the game. With a N/A setup port velocity and very important for driveability and piston draw. But on a FI setup you want those runners to allow as much air as possible in with every stroke of the piston. I think the Viper crowd still has a long way to go. Most of the vipers are making around 2.5 to 2.8 hp per CI. Thats decent but nowhere near where it could be. The high flowing headed SBC's are making 3.5 and even 4 hp per ci. Of course it all comes from head flow. I think in the furture things will change somewhat. Just takes time.
Paolo, our kit will take up to Twin 76GTS (2200HP).
Once again headflow is the name of the game. With a N/A setup port velocity and very important for driveability and piston draw. But on a FI setup you want those runners to allow as much air as possible in with every stroke of the piston. I think the Viper crowd still has a long way to go. Most of the vipers are making around 2.5 to 2.8 hp per CI. Thats decent but nowhere near where it could be.
Damn it...I keep telling you guys my viper needs a good head job
I was actually thinking of your signature and i coulda swore it said ~950 or about. Guess i was wrong.
And again, Some say the meth and pump = race gas, which hold true somewhat, But its not like your driving around town all day wasting $6+ race gas. You can drive around for days--weeks, befor you might ever want to get on it, or race someone. Have the meth on a switch to come on at say~18psi and you have the equivelent of race gas anytime, and ONLY, when you need it.
But i guess its a moot point, because if I could have my way, then ofcourse i would like to do it on only 93 pump.
As for others, yes bore size will make a big difference as will dwell time and rod length. Cam specs also play a huge role, and its something the Viper crowd has yet to mess with. Once again headflow is the name of the game. With a N/A setup port velocity and very important for driveability and piston draw. But on a FI setup you want those runners to allow as much air as possible in with every stroke of the piston.
there is the key right there....with an NA setup bigger is not always better....velocity is where it counts....but with the turbos they create enough backpressure, and a bottle neck for the air on their own....in that case you want some monster ammounts of air flow because the turbos are gonna push that air through the motor....
there is the key right there....with an NA setup bigger is not always better....velocity is where it counts....but with the turbos they create enough backpressure, and a bottle neck for the air on their own....in that case you want some monster ammounts of air flow because the turbos are gonna push that air through the motor....
Yes headflow is the key. Would be nice if these cars had an option for a nice cathedral port 12 deg heads...hehe. Can you say 400cfm's...lol.
yeah i hear ya...its nice over in my neck of the woods...there are endless options as far as the aftermarket goes for the Ford's 302-351 windsor motors...and prices are nothing like what it costs for Viper parts....i could build a motor from the ground up with my dream parts for less than the cost of a full exhaust (headers back) on a Viper....
Another just made 850rwhp on pump +meth, on a horrible dyno run @ only 24psi. Both completely street cars that have driven a total of over 20k miles this year. Displacement doesn't seem to be the issue there 
(How the hell do you get 575ci out of a viper motor. :shocked: 9.3L if my est is right.)
Linear Mode
