Finally a tuner that concentrates and puts emphasis on the cooling system! With those temperature readings I take my hat off to you guys. That was my only downfall with my Vipers. The extremely high temperatures. Can you give us any details on what you did to accomplish the lower cooling temperatures?
My beast runs under 180 all day long even with a little boost here and there Runs cooler than stock, by activitating the fans earlier and the big ass radiator helps too
Hey SVS welcome back man, we missed you at the last V10s See you soon [img]/images/graemlins/supergrin.gif[/img]
Mike
You know we didn't change the thermostat I just went out in the shop and put it on the list. We have the fans coming on at 83C. Mike at what degree do you have the fans coming on?
The stock thermostat in the SRT opens at 185F, but doesn't fully open until 219F. Does the after market 180 thermostat for the gen 2's work in the same fashion? or does it fully open at 180? I know I could go research this, or wait until Monday, but I was wondering if Mr. Doug Levin would chime in and throw me a tidbit of his knowledge? [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
Does anybody know who supplies after market thermostat's for the SRT-10's?
I know you are doin the two-step to avoid the question!!! DUH! [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
The viper crew seems to be about 5 years behind the supra crew in tuners offering nice aftermarket turbo packages for the viper. I remember back in the day, all the "TOP SECRET" info. The bottom line is that there is NO rocket science to turbo sizing, and there is no secret turbo. I've found in the supra community that the tuner who is open and forthcoming with information is usually the one with the best reputation and success in the future. I'm only asking b/c i'm curious, i'm a turbo guru...
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVS Turbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonT
How big are they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVS Turbo
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Originally Posted by houstonT
Congrats on the beautiful beast! Gotta love those turbo's! Speaking of turbo's, which ones do you guys use?
Peter
Garrett/hybrids
Jr.
Ohhhhh......... they are pretty big, I have my hands on them right now [img]/images/graemlins/supergrin.gif[/img]
I'm trying to avoid your question. I'm not at liberty to give out certain info. Hope ya understand.
Peter - bottom line on turbo sizing for any Viper is the amount of room you have to fit them in there. Once you find a turbo that fits and makes power then its really a lot of work and hassle to try something different.
Now when Paolo gets his custom program going, he may have enough room up in the nose to run a pair of 100 mm Thumpers. Yikes.
Gen 2 TT systems have more room to play with turbo sizing, Gen 3 is way tight and I was surprised we were able to get a car to go 156 mph in the 1/4.
I've always said John... Even if you take into consideration that only 5 cylinders are stuffing air into the turbos, you have the ability to go BIG on these cars. Shit, if it were me, i'd be figuring out a way to stuff some 66 mm turbo's under there. The car has enough displacement to spool them, and lag is not/should not be a concern.
Have fun...
Peter
I've always said John... Even if you take into consideration that only 5 cylinders are stuffing air into the turbos, you have the ability to go BIG on these cars. Shit, if it were me, i'd be figuring out a way to stuff some 66 mm turbo's under there. The car has enough displacement to spool them, and lag is not/should not be a concern.
Have fun...
Peter
Calm down... We wouldn't want a supra's torque curve here now. I'm sure some Garrett GTs are right in their sweet spots with 244CID running them.
Peter - bottom line on turbo sizing for any Viper is the amount of room you have to fit them in there. Once you find a turbo that fits and makes power then its really a lot of work and hassle to try something different.
Now when Paolo gets his custom program going, he may have enough room up in the nose to run a pair of 100 mm Thumpers. Yikes.
Gen 2 TT systems have more room to play with turbo sizing, Gen 3 is way tight and I was surprised we were able to get a car to go 156 mph in the 1/4.
I've always said John... Even if you take into consideration that only 5 cylinders are stuffing air into the turbos, you have the ability to go BIG on these cars. Shit, if it were me, i'd be figuring out a way to stuff some 66 mm turbo's under there. The car has enough displacement to spool them, and lag is not/should not be a concern.
Have fun...
Peter
John, thanks for your response. I definitely have the room to run a pair of 100 MM thumpers, but am running something slightly smaller than that to have good spooling and full boost by around 4,000 RPM. From all the calculations, the larger turbos should hold the torque peak until around 5200-5400 RPM thus allowing for a more proportionate HP # to the torque #. But it's all in the tuning as you well know. ==> Look at that one turbo car we discussed recently that posted those weak ass dyno #'s. To say I have never seen a Viper power band quite like that would be an understatement of epic proportions!
Peter, I am looking foreward to seeing exactly how quickly 8 liters will spool the turbos I am using. The project is coming along very well. I have very throroughly enjoyed engineering, designing and fabricating my own twin turbo system from scratch and finding a source to make me my own awesome turbo flanges. All I had to do was send them a head and it was a piece of cake! I have been working very hard and should hopefully have something coming together in the next 2 months or so. When I get done, I would love to come to Texas to do some highway pulls!
It sure takes a lot of balls to start from scratch and tear down that beautiful car. Good on you for tryin, and I hope you come out on top! Let us know how it finishes up.
I had one question: are you going to a MOTEC system? If so, who's doing the tuning? The most amazing part of SVS's graph is the fact that the smoothing was turned completely off. If thats true its a HUGE testimony to how well a MOTEC can manage a motor.
Paolo, thanks for the mature response. I'm anxiously awaiting to see how the "BIG" motor spools your turbo's. There is no replacement for displacement (and boost) [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img] I would love to run you on the highway, although i'm sure i'll get slaughtered!!!! Let me know when you're in my neck of the woods...
chan - i'm very calm, thanks for being concerned. I guess the supras TQ curve does suck, only 1000 rwtq out of a measely 183 ci motor...
It sure takes a lot of balls to start from scratch and tear down that beautiful car. Good on you for tryin, and I hope you come out on top! Let us know how it finishes up.
I had one question: are you going to a MOTEC system? If so, who's doing the tuning? The most amazing part of SVS's graph is the fact that the smoothing was turned completely off. If thats true its a HUGE testimony to how well a MOTEC can manage a motor.
Best,
Clint, thanks for your support! When one really realizes exactly how much more turbos have to offer, it was really a no brainer. I have taken some flack from certain supercharger guys, but my end result will need no explanation. I do not know about coming out on top, but I think I am the only one so far that has designed and actually built their system himself. I have done everything except the TIG welding myself. Many hours in the garage!!!!!!!! I am my own best slave! [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img] As far as the Motec is concerned, I would not waste the time to build a harness to interface the motec to the viper wiring system. In the past, that was the only way to go because there was no other way to manage the fuel. But now there are many ways to go. Look at Jason Heffner, Yellow Fever's car made 870+ RWTQ by 3300 RPM and way more area under the curve and it just holds it with a beautiful power curve that looks like a Viper power curve should look. That is with just a regular piggyback CPU that is simple and cost effective from a tuner profitability standpoint. Heffner's shit works period. Hennessey is using a similar piggyback system and makes huge power(similar torque curve) on a stock bottom end motor. I could definitely go the pigyback route with the split second box. I think I will be using an AEM computer that actually does more and is more user friendly than the motec after you fuinally get it wired up. The AEM just plugs into the stock ECU location without all the building the harness effort. I do not think the AEM has quite the datalogging capabilities of the Motec, but we are not racing in the 24 hours of Le Mans here either. I have recently taken an AEM tuning class and will be working closely with several top tuning gurus to complete the articulated, high resolution tuning maps to run the " Enzo, Who's your Fucking Daddy?" Castellano Twin Turborossa. If you have any more questions, please feel free to email me so we are not hijacking Jr's thread. Sorry Jr. Congrats on your smooth curve! You are the man! [img]/images/graemlins/supergrin.gif[/img]
The most amazing part of SVS's graph is the fact that the smoothing was turned completely off. If thats true its a HUGE testimony to how well a MOTEC can manage a motor.
Best,
Clint,
It was completely turned off. If you were every in question about Motec's capabilities, I would get answers from someone that is knowledgeable about the system and has experience in tuning with either AEM or Motec. AEM used to run MOTEC in their racecars, until they started to decipher. Many of the shortcuts in their software are the same as Motec's, Hmmmmmmmm. Autronic is the split that happened from Motec. Motec is NOT for everyone and SVS has never tried to say that it is. It definitely has the best of everything and is TOP SHELF. It does require a more in depth understanding of electronics/sensors and wiring.
Building a custom harness that interfaces with the stock computer and throws no codes is not an easy task. Figuring out the electronics was the reason we had this Viper for a long time. Once someone finishes a 1000Hp turbo system on a Viper utilizing AEM, then and only then will you know the true cost for an entire EMS that will properly handle it from AEM. If you think that you just plug it in and it will run everything properly on your 1000 Hp TURBO V-10 engine, you are in for some surprises. I wouldn't compare this SRT-10 to a GTS or RT-10 in stock form or turbocharged form. It's ridiculous and insinuation.
The reason we went with Motec is because of the data/information we have gathered from using it and the precision it has for managing an engine.
This SRT-10 TT is conservatively tuned. GTS, gen 2 will be totally different. I’m going to miss testing with this Viper, it is so smooth…….and smooth is fast and controllable.
I wasn't able to scrape up a race for some good video and this is the best I could do over last night and today. Went to a car show today and pulled 800rwhp and 880rwftlbs. Had a great time at the Il. VCA 10 year reunion last night. Engineers from SRT were there with good stories and great information. Looking forward to hanging out and helping at the racetrack this year.
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/SRT-10TT/stage.JPG[/image]
Steve from Autoform
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/SRT-10TT/steveautoform.JPG[/image]
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/SRT-10TT/showparty.JPG[/image]
They thought they were Paris and Nicky Hilton????????????
[image]http://www.supervipersystems.com/SRT-10TT/girls.JPG[/image]
[quote=SVS Turbo] It definitely has the best of everything and is TOP SHELF. It does require a more in depth understanding of electronics/sensors and wiring.
Building a custom harness that interfaces with the stock computer and throws no codes is not an easy task. Figuring out the electronics was the reason we had this Viper for a long time. Once someone finishes a 1000Hp turbo system on a Viper utilizing AEM, then and only then will you know the true cost for an entire EMS that will properly handle it from AEM. If you think that you just plug it in and it will run everything properly on your 1000 Hp TURBO V-10 engine, you are in for some surprises. I wouldn't compare this SRT-10 to a GTS or RT-10 in stock form or turbocharged form. It's ridiculous and insinuation.
The reason we went with Motec is because of the data/information we have gathered from using it and the precision it has for managing an engine.
This SRT-10 TT is conservatively tuned. GTS, gen 2 will be totally different. I’m going to miss testing with this Viper, it is so smooth…….and smooth is fast and controllable.[quote]
Jr. I am sure the AEM will not be able to handle interfacing with the SRT-10, but the beta units have already (very successfully)tuned some higher powered forced induction Gen-II Vipers so far.
You said, " If you think that you just plug it in and it will run everything properly on your 1000 Hp TURBO V-10 engine, you are in for some surprises."
What exactly do you mean by that? [img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img]
Unless you have personally tried the AEM, you could be missing out on something pretty cool in supposing that it will not work as it already has has on the beta unit test Vipers.
I give you guys a lot of credit for taking the time and effort to figure out how to run an SRT with the motec, but I would not be so pessimistic about the capabilities of the AEM for the Gen-II cars. After all, it's just air, fuel and timing......... Right? How hard could it be? :thumb:
You know we didn't change the thermostat I just went out in the shop and put it on the list. We have the fans coming on at 83C. Mike at what degree do you have the fans coming on?
The stock thermostat in the SRT opens at 185F, but doesn't fully open until 219F. Does the after market 180 thermostat for the gen 2's work in the same fashion? or does it fully open at 180? I know I could go research this, or wait until Monday, but I was wondering if Mr. Doug Levin would chime in and throw me a tidbit of his knowledge? [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
Does anybody know who supplies after market thermostat's for the SRT-10's?
Mike thanks for the post.
Jr.
I really dont know when the fans start but I do know I have the thermostat in there. See you ~ [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
Hope the vids and pics throw a little entertainment into everyones browsing this post. [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
I started this post only wanting to simply explain what we have built into this SRT-10 and also entertain/show results and promote our product.
I didn't start this post as a debate platform against Motec, AEM, piggyback systems, other tuners, other systems, other dyno sheets, etc. etc. I understand people have questions and I like nothing more than trying to answer them to the best of my ability.
I have never said AEM is a bad product or that it won't work. All I stated is that "Currently there's no 1000hp Viper V-10 Turbo systems on the road and completed utilizing the AEM system" I'm sure there will be soon enough, but at this moment in time the "COSTS" associated with a "COMPLETE" AEM EMS that is proven to run a 1000Hp Viper V-10 Turbo system are yet to be seen. When this time comes we can very easily look at the costs and compare them to what our costs are for the same with Motec and make decisions accordingly. We are not against any other standalone EMS, think that Motec is the only thing that everybody should use or act as if piggyback systems don't work. They all work in there own capabilities and paramaters goverened by inherent design.
I know all kinds of people that have went to AEM tuning school and probably half of UTI has completed the classes. All kinds of higher end tuning capabilities are becoming available and it's only going to get better.
We started back in 1996-97 with the Motec system and now can incorporate it into any year Viper, or any vehicle for that matter. I feel that the past 7 years or so of working with the standalone EMS/electronics/wiring and engine tuning environment has given us a good foundation to ride the wave into the future of fine tuning.
It would be self defeating for us to just stop what we have been working on for a long time and switching to AEM because everyone is enamored by the words plug and play. When the AEM system is proven by running a 1000hp Viper V-10 turbo system, and complete costs for all components are established to tune, and made available, and performs the tasks we are interested in it performing, then we will decide if it is a fit.
Otherwise we are working with what we have worked with and what works for us and is proven to run a 1000hp Viper V-10 turbo system.
I know you are doin the two-step to avoid the question!!! DUH! [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
The viper crew seems to be about 5 years behind the supra crew in tuners offering nice aftermarket turbo packages for the viper. I remember back in the day, all the "TOP SECRET" info. The bottom line is that there is NO rocket science to turbo sizing, and there is no secret turbo. I've found in the supra community that the tuner who is open and forthcoming with information is usually the one with the best reputation and success in the future. I'm only asking b/c i'm curious, i'm a turbo guru...
Peter
Peter, Somehow I just managed to see this part of your post " The bottom line is that there is NO rocket science to turbo sizing, and there is no secret turbo."
You know, you are so right, it all comes down to the displacement of the motor and where exactly you want to see the boost come in. The Viper community is AT LEAST 5 years behind the Supra community when it comes to the general knowlege of turbocharging principles. The reason for this is some of the original Viper turbo tuners spent a lot of money paying other people to design a turbo system for them instead of getting a firm grasp of exactly what needs to be done to achieve a desired end result. The wasted spark ignition and odd firing at 54 and 90 degrees and the whole V-10 thing made it very difficult to manage the fuel and ignition timing. The first ones to kind of figure it out decided to charge a heavy Viper tax that people were not ready for..... Then came along the Levins and Heffners doing the supercharger thing for a lot less $$$$$$$$$ with piggyback technology..... Then Hennessey came out with a twin turbo system without wasting his time on the whole blower thing. I have been gathering information this whole time and I think you will be pleased with the way it turns out. I am also thinking of doing a GT 42 single turbo for the lower powered version of my system. Since you are a turbo guru, when do you think that baby will be fully spooled up with 8 liters feeding it? I am thinking probably as low as 35-3600 RPM with the smaller AR's and smaller compressor and turbine wheels. It should make somewhere around 800-1000 HP depending on the aggressiveness of the tune.
Runs cooler than stock, by activitating the fans earlier and the big ass radiator helps too 
