Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Nitrous doesn't allow you to add timing, it is adding oxygen.....normally (if anything) you would pull timing out for nitrous. Timing is where most of the hp would come from with the water injection (detonation prevention)
No way I would compare the two. Also, when compared to intercooled + race gas, I don't think the gains would be much more with water/methonal injection.
Everybody is worried about what the other guy has....screw it.....worry about who gets to the finish first, strip or street.
I'm not whinning about my stock engine :doh: Well, maybe a little :CRY:
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
I am still looking for a Re match on the go kart racing.. does that count ? Can we spray those fuckers ??
Jon
The slick track...we will have at it. The little road coarse......no way for me unless they have changed something. Last year those things bounced so bad I thought something was wrong with my cart. I pulled in after one lap......everybody else said theirs also bounced very bad.
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Well, I guess its bumper cars then, not like they can blame us, if the carts are "bouncing" all over the track..
All I know is David is my bitch !! I cant blame Tony for sending me into the wall, cuz I called him out and told him to stop driving like a chick and start hitting people.
But now David... well he ran, hid behind a wall, and waited for all the little kids to get out of the carts on the previous group (I think He pushed a little girl out of the way too..) just so he could get "pole position" in the race, and get the KNOWN faster cart. A real driver could win with ANY kart, not just the fast one..... PUNK !
Jon
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Well, I guess its bumper cars then, not like they can blame us, if the carts are "bouncing" all over the track..
All I know is David is my bitch !! I cant blame Tony for sending me into the wall, cuz I called him out and told him to stop driving like a chick and start hitting people.
But now David... well he ran, hid behind a wall, and waited for all the little kids to get out of the carts on the previous group (I think He pushed a little girl out of the way too..) just so he could get "pole position" in the race, and get the KNOWN faster cart. A real driver could win with ANY kart, not just the fast one..... PUNK !
Jon
We have the Nascar type OVAL slick track rented. The road course was terrible!!!
I WILL OWN YOU AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
If someone had 600rwhp and just added water injection with nothing else done would his HP go up? Or does it allow a tuner / customer to add more boost and advance a little more timing to get more HP safely and efficiently.
G
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TONY1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
David, with all due respect, water/methanol injection accomplishes the same thing as nitrous; ie cooling the intake charge allowing more timing and therefore more power.
Paolo, Sounds like you need to brush up on n02 class 101
Tony, all I was saying was that both make additional power. I did not say it was the exact same mechanism, just that if methanol injection added 5-7 mph on Dr. Roof's car in the 1/4, a certain shot of N2O would do the same.
How's your car buddy? I hope to see you soon.
Seems like we can tell you 4xs in this post alone that his engine was redone and so was the blower but it just goes in one ear and out the other, I dont understand you sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img] if water injection caused him to gain 7mph in the quarter than you need to change tuners cause Doug is a magician like you said in my thread :bonk:
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Roof
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hennessey
TT are still in the back seat until Proven otherwise
UMMM, SORRY ROOF, OUR VENOM TT RAN IN THE 8'S (8.93) IN THE 1/4 MILE 4-5 MONTHS BEFORE THE FIRST SC RAN IN THE 9'S.
Yes with a Auto and with NOS!!!
ALso wasn't your 152 in Texas with NOS. I will look on the Video to make sure but I videod your runs without the Bottle and I thought the 152 was with NOS. I WILL CHECK and see.
ABsolutely this TT ran the 152 with No NOS! That car is sick!
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TONY1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
David, with all due respect, water/methanol injection accomplishes the same thing as nitrous; ie cooling the intake charge allowing more timing and therefore more power.
Paolo, Sounds like you need to brush up on n02 class 101
Tony, all I was saying was that both make additional power. I did not say it was the exact same mechanism, just that if methanol injection added 5-7 mph on Dr. Roof's car in the 1/4, a certain shot of N2O would do the same.
How's your car buddy? I hope to see you soon.
I DO NOT HAVE MENTHONAL IT IS PURE WATER!!! I am going to get a box of straws in Bowling Green so if someone gets thirsty they can just drink a nice cold drink of Ice water out of my Bottle [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img]
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Roof
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TONY1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
David, with all due respect, water/methanol injection accomplishes the same thing as nitrous; ie cooling the intake charge allowing more timing and therefore more power.
Paolo, Sounds like you need to brush up on n02 class 101
Tony, all I was saying was that both make additional power. I did not say it was the exact same mechanism, just that if methanol injection added 5-7 mph on Dr. Roof's car in the 1/4, a certain shot of N2O would do the same.
How's your car buddy? I hope to see you soon.
I DO NOT HAVE MENTHONAL IT IS PURE WATER!!! I am going to get a box of straws in Bowling Green so if someone gets thirsty they can just drink a nice cold drink of Ice water out of my Bottle [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img]
David, why are you geting so touchy?
Water has slightly more than double the specific heat absorption of methanol.
Since it was never clarified, and since somebody was running the methanol, I just assumed you were too. I apologize if I offended you.
Hey, is your phone broken? Give me a call! 630-878-3907
P.S. I will pass on the ice water unless you can run a peach iced tea injection system on your car!
Snapple would be my first preference! :thumb:
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moundir
Seems like we can tell you 4xs in this post alone that his engine was redone and so was the blower but it just goes in one ear and out the other, I dont understand you sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img] if water injection caused him to gain 7mph in the quarter than you need to change tuners cause Doug is a magician like you said in my thread :bonk:
Mike I must have missed this part of your reponse before.
Since you mention this, I have a few questions:
==> I remember David posting something to the effect that he just got his car back with the motor being rebuilt and how he had the same dyno #'s(850 RWHP and 882 RWTQ) with lower boost.
I remember thinking that was great.
1. Can David post the dyno sheet of the 850 RWHP/882 RWTQ @ 15 or 16 PSI on the stock motor and also post the dyno sheet for the 850 RWHP/882 RWTQ at the lower boost level as well.
I would love to see the difference in the power curves of identical peak RWHP and RWTQ that would yield the large increase in 1/4 mile MPH.
2. I remember David not having too terribly many miles on his stock motor
==> Why was the motor rebuilt? Just for more power? It seems like a waste to rebuild a perfectly good motor. What's the scoop on that one?
I hope I am not offending anybody here.
My intention here is to learn the facts so I can more accurately interact with you DLM guys since I seem to have been getting it wrong lately as Mike's little [img]/images/graemlins/freak[/img] icon so eloquently suggests his frustration with my inaccuracies.
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Hello Paolo -
David allowed me the privilege of building his Viper!
I made him a promise: I would make his car very fast [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
The factory block in "stock form" was not adequate to obtain the horsepower numbers we were looking to achieve. My preference when building a high horsepower car is to start from scratch constructing the engine to fancy my own specifications. The factory provides a very good piece, however, there were other objectives between David and myself to get him down the track.
I'll take the compliment for building him a fast car, but David is the one that gets it down the track, quick! He's not a tuner, just a talented driver with no prior drag race experience. He took control of his car and desired to be the best at what he does with it.
One important rule I can't express enough: I don't get caught up in the dyno numbers. Especially in dealing with forced induction and specifically with intercoolers. Dynamometers are tuning tools; The better the tune, the more horsepower you can achieve. Although, sitting a blower/turbo car still on a dyno does not specify the trap speed when you obtain the net horsepower numbers. You can't rely on (and what we refer to) as the "stationary numbers." Unless of course you can move enough air across the dyno to simulate air exchange and speeds in excess of 100+ mile per hour conducive to the racing environment. And this is because we know we rely on an intercooler to lower charge air temps so we can pack more air into the cylinders to make more ponies. The abundance of good, cool air keeps our boost from suffering the deficit of pressure loss. What you see is not always what you get - It takes air to multiply air!
Best Regards,
Doug Levin
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Levin Motorsports
Hello Paolo -
David allowed me the privilege of building his Viper!
I made him a promise: I would make his car very fast [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
The factory block in "stock form" was not adequate to obtain the horsepower numbers we were looking to achieve. My preference when building a high horsepower car is to start from scratch constructing the engine to fancy my own specifications. The factory provides a very good piece, however, there were other objectives between David and myself to get him down the track.
I'll take the compliment for building him a fast car, but David is the one that gets it down the track, quick! He's not a tuner, just a talented driver with no prior drag race experience. He took control of his car and desired to be the best at what he does with it.
One important rule I can't express enough: I don't get caught up in the dyno numbers. Especially in dealing with forced induction and specifically with intercoolers. Dynamometers are tuning tools; The better the tune, the more horsepower you can achieve. Although, sitting a blower/turbo car still on a dyno does not specify the trap speed when you obtain the net horsepower numbers. You can't rely on (and what we refer to) as the "stationary numbers." Unless of course you can move enough air across the dyno to simulate air exchange and speeds in excess of 100+ mile per hour conducive to the racing environment. And this is because we know we rely on an intercooler to lower charge air temps so we can pack more air into the cylinders to make more ponies. The abundance of good, cool air keeps our boost from suffering the deficit of pressure loss. What you see is not always what you get - It takes air to multiply air!
Best Regards,
Doug Levin
Doug, thank you for the response!
Certain individuals on the board had made some comments that made me start to think of the questions I asked in my last post.
So you are basically saying that the same air flow(that can not be duplicated on the dyno or taken into account) at 100+ MPH across the intercooler with the new setup is doing more to cool the air than it did with the previous setup at 100+ MPH which is netting the 5-7 MPH in the 1/4 mile?
Is this exactly what you are saying?
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moundir
Seems like we can tell you 4xs in this post alone that his engine was redone and so was the blower but it just goes in one ear and out the other, I dont understand you sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img] if water injection caused him to gain 7mph in the quarter than you need to change tuners cause Doug is a magician like you said in my thread :bonk:
Mike I must have missed this part of your reponse before.
Since you mention this, I have a few questions:
==> I remember David posting something to the effect that he just got his car back with the motor being rebuilt and how he had the same dyno #'s(850 RWHP and 882 RWTQ) with lower boost.
I remember thinking that was great.
1. Can David post the dyno sheet of the 850 RWHP/882 RWTQ @ 15 or 16 PSI on the stock motor and also post the dyno sheet for the 850 RWHP/882 RWTQ at the lower boost level as well.
I would love to see the difference in the power curves of identical peak RWHP and RWTQ that would yield the large increase in 1/4 mile MPH.
2. I remember David not having too terribly many miles on his stock motor
==> Why was the motor rebuilt? Just for more power? It seems like a waste to rebuild a perfectly good motor. What's the scoop on that one?
I hope I am not offending anybody here.
My intention here is to learn the facts so I can more accurately interact with you DLM guys since I seem to have been getting it wrong lately as Mike's little [img]/images/graemlins/freak[/img] icon so eloquently suggests his frustration with my inaccuracies.
ok Paolo here we go again [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img] better heads/cam, new plumbing(much more effecient)water injection and lowered the Boost If David wants to share his dyno that is up to him but I have that sucker and the tq is just stupid [img]/images/graemlins/shocked[/img]
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moundir
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Castellano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moundir
Seems like we can tell you 4xs in this post alone that his engine was redone and so was the blower but it just goes in one ear and out the other, I dont understand you sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img] if water injection caused him to gain 7mph in the quarter than you need to change tuners cause Doug is a magician like you said in my thread :bonk:
Mike I must have missed this part of your reponse before.
Since you mention this, I have a few questions:
==> I remember David posting something to the effect that he just got his car back with the motor being rebuilt and how he had the same dyno #'s(850 RWHP and 882 RWTQ) with lower boost.
I remember thinking that was great.
1. Can David post the dyno sheet of the 850 RWHP/882 RWTQ @ 15 or 16 PSI on the stock motor and also post the dyno sheet for the 850 RWHP/882 RWTQ at the lower boost level as well.
I would love to see the difference in the power curves of identical peak RWHP and RWTQ that would yield the large increase in 1/4 mile MPH.
2. I remember David not having too terribly many miles on his stock motor
==> Why was the motor rebuilt? Just for more power? It seems like a waste to rebuild a perfectly good motor. What's the scoop on that one?
I hope I am not offending anybody here.
My intention here is to learn the facts so I can more accurately interact with you DLM guys since I seem to have been getting it wrong lately as Mike's little [img]/images/graemlins/freak[/img] icon so eloquently suggests his frustration with my inaccuracies.
ok Paolo here we go again [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img] better heads/cam, new plumbing(much more effecient)water injection and lowered the Boost If David wants to share his dyno that is up to him but I have that sucker and the tq is just stupid [img]/images/graemlins/shocked[/img]
Actually
I am pretty sure that my car makes far more than 850 RWHP. I have put the car on the dyno 2 times at the last events with problems both times. In Texas they pulled 2-3 times and finally got 822. Heat soaked and New Blower Belt. In Florida the Car pulled multiple TImes and finally registered 913 RWHP. again due to the problems on the DYNO (things happen) this number is in dispute.
BUT THE ONE THING WE DO KNOW IS THIS. MY CAR SMOKES YOURS OR ANY OTHER FORCED INDUCTION VIPER ON THE PLANET!!! WATER OR NO WATER THAT IS THE FACT! INCLUDING THE TWIN TURBO'S!
Keep in mind NOS cars are the KING OF THE TRACK (I am going after them)
I also understand the potential of the TWIN TURBO and the POTENTIAL of FUture Blower cars. when I get beat TRUST ME! I will be back on top and it won't take long! no more dyno racing. let's get it on.
I am prepared to get beat, but I am also prepared to make a Powerhouse of a combat!
so regardless of my RWHP (even though I am sure it is impressive) my car runs the number's to back it up.
I also expect to be real close to the 6 speed record in Bowling Green!
Big Thanks to DLM for the Powerful car!
Stay Tuned ladies and Gentlemen DR Roof will be Impressive at Bowling Green!!!
I believe in coming to race day Prepared for all!!!
Paolo
I got the book I have been real busy getting stuff together I will try you this week!
Re: I\'m coming to Bowling Green who wants some????
