Rear Caliper Mod vs. EBC Greens or Brakeman 3's?

Achilles99 · January 30th, 2004, 09:46 AM

OK, I've sold my OO RT10, and I'm going to be getting a 98 GTS within the next few weeks (depending on trailer driver's schedule). With my 00RT10, the stock brakes would lock up the fronts very quickly. When I added EBC Greens, I got less dusting, better modulation, but also less initial bite. I'm trying to decide whether to:

1) Go EBC's all-around
2) EBC's up front, with Brakeman3's in back to help brake bias

OR, I'm seriously considering going with the rear brake caliper mod that Tom has a available for $600 + core exchange. I'd go with the 38mm rear caliper, which should bring my brake bias to almost exactly the same as a front Stoptech Brake kit (Stoptech front caliper is smaller than stock front. Tom's mod is a bigger rear caliper, giving the same ratio of brake caliper area, but I think would make an overall better braking system than the Stoptech fronts only, since you'd have more total overall brake caliper area). Now, I'm talking stopping power here, and not brake fad resistance. The Stoptech fronts would probably be better for fad resistance.

I plan to auto-x the car a lot, and do a few track events here and there. Nothing major.

Anyone have any experiences with the above setups?

**_Mark_** · January 30th, 2004, 10:54 AM

EBCs all around is a waste IMO. In fact, I can't stand EBCs for the very reason you mentioned - they've got no bite. I've been running Porterfeld R4 pads at the track, and they make a R4S version for the street that I think I'll switch to. I've been running around with just the R4 pads left on from the track, but they bite too hard on the street and lead to easy lockup.

Tom's mod is a piston change, not a bigger caliper but thats probably what you meant. For the price, you probably can't beat it.

In the meantime, I think I'm going to put the R4 in the rear to get as much bite as possible, and use the R4S in the front for my street driving. This would work for autox as well. Also, you don't have to use the R4, any comparable Brakeman pad would work too. I want to try Hawk Blues on the track as well.

Oh, and if you want to auto-x, get the car aligned. The stock alignment sucks and a better track-biased alignment makes all the difference.

onerareviper · January 30th, 2004, 11:56 AM

1.) I have spoke to many Viper experts with regard to mix/match brake bads. Most, no all, recommend against this strategy.

2.) I have brakeman 3's all around on a '98. They work great for aggessive street driving, but would be PERFECT with the 38mm rear caliper upgrade you mention. Eventually I may upgrade, but I've found the rear bias problem is less pronounced with the brakeman 3's. Still not perfect, but seems better than stock pads.

I think you will be VERY happy with the Brakeman 3's and the 38mm upgrade. BTW - Give Bill Pemberton a call. He is the man when it comes to brakes.

Later

Achilles99 · January 30th, 2004, 02:31 PM

Great, thanks for the responses! I'm going to try the brake piston mod with stock pads, and see how that goes. Now that I'm going to use the GTS as a daily driver, I don't think I can handle the ineffective initial bite of the EBC's. Then again, I hope I don't lock up the fronts, either

How bad do the Brakeman 3's dust?

onerareviper · January 30th, 2004, 08:53 PM

The dust about the same as stock.

GTS Dean · January 30th, 2004, 10:09 PM

I'm a pad-mixer, but I don't recommend it for someone who doesn't have a good bit of track time under their belt. It could cause some unexpected suprises. There are issues concerning initial bite, torque rise and cold vs hot performance not to be taken lightly.

Achilles99 · February 1st, 2004, 03:31 PM

OK, I've decided to go with the rear piston upgrade. I'll post results after the installation.

I've got a bit of track experience, but I can use all the predictability I can. So, I guess I'm going to hold off on the pad mixing, at least until I see how this caliper mod goes.

**_Mark_** · February 1st, 2004, 04:38 PM

Let me know how the caliper mod goes, I was interested in it when Tom first did it and I might get the same thing done.

Achilles99 · February 1st, 2004, 09:34 PM

No problem, I'll let everyone know as soon as possible. My plan is to drive my new GTS for a week (it's been delivered next week), and then change out the calipers. I'm assuming that the GTS brakes will be similar in feel to my RT brakes... which, with stock pads, is horrible with front-brake lockup. Hopefully, the caliper change will make it a lot better.

Has anyone had any experience with the StopTech front brakes only, or know the numbers on how much braking improves with the StopTech fronts (not full set)?

striped2001RT · February 12th, 2004, 03:16 PM

I've got a yellow 2001 RT/10 with the ABS and I'd like to cut down the brake dust. I've heard the EBC green will accomplish that but I'm worried about the comments I'm reading here. I don't drive it on a track, but when I need to impress a passenger, I like to show of with a 0-85-0 demo. Will I really notice that "they've got no bite"?

**_Mark_** · February 12th, 2004, 03:19 PM

If you're only used to stock pads, you'll be fine with EBCs. We are comparing them with track pads so its apples to oranges.

You've got ABS, so who cares, just stand on it and hang on.

ATEAV8 · February 13th, 2004, 11:34 AM

I have them on my 02 & they work great, & much less brake dust.
Andy

Tom · February 13th, 2004, 06:53 PM

Achilles99 won't be putting 38mm rear calipers on his new GTS to stay within the autocross class rules. But I'm still interested in any comments from this forum about the 38mm or 40mm conversion. PM me if you have questions. Thanks.

Achilles99 · February 13th, 2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Mark

If you're only used to stock pads, you'll be fine with EBCs. We are comparing them with track pads so its apples to oranges.

You've got ABS, so who cares, just stand on it and hang on.

Personally, I thought the EBC's did NOT have as good initial bite. I almost ran into cars while trying to stop. I've had two other Viper buddies say the same thing... EBC's simply don't feel like they have the bite of stock pads.

Of course, your experience may vary... only one way to tell. Either install the pads, or drive someone else's car with the pads on them [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]

Tie · February 14th, 2004, 03:30 PM

I like my EBC Greens much better than stock. They have after break-in been very predictable for me during some hard braking situations. When these wear out I'm planning on buying another set, I like the greens performance.

What if you don't like the greens after you have them for a while, just switch them out. Besides they are not that expensive and you just might like the darn things.