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Lets talk Engine Block(Different Gen's)

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Old January 28th, 2013, 11:25 PM   #21
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I never plan to track my car(Road Race) And for 10 sec or so of hitting the gas, i dont think a dry sump would be worth the cost.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by primedtsi View Post
Gen1 blocks are dry sleeved and have thicker blocks making them stronger.
Gen2 blocks are wet sleeved with lighter blocks potentially making then weaker.
Other way around. Gen-1 is wet, Gen-2/3/4/5 are all dry sleeves.

All Viper engines have potential. In general, as generations progress, so do their capabilities. That being said...

In terms of torsional rigidity, Gen-1 probably has more straight material than the later generation. However, the lack of cross-bracing due to it being a wet sleeve, no cross-bolted mains, and a shallow pan do not help this statistic along. When coupled with the fact that you are limited to Gen-1 heads, it falls down the list a good bit.

Gen-2 and 3 are fairly similar in capability and overall layout. In OE form, Gen-2 has a superior oil system design, while Gen-3 has a superior head design.

Gen-4 is the game changer, and is superior in every aspect. The Gen-4 has a stronger block, stronger bulkheads, considerably better heads and manifold, a very revised oil system/cooling system/ignition system, and also a much more advanced method of cam/crank position detection... not to mention the asset of having a variable camshaft. The downside is that the Gen-4 block has smaller hardware, and requires more work to machine- but on the upside, this causes you to leapfrog the Gen-2/3 engines in hardware size due to overlapping thread sizes, and you end up with a stronger product in every way.

All of that said, 2003-2004 have a flywheel mounted crank trigger, which can be temperamental in high power builds due to block deflection moving the sensor and flywheel triggers apart and closer together, in turn causing signal instability. Also, 2004 has a smaller damper bolt. Not a big deal on keyed crank however.

In a max-effort build, near all of the OEM considerations go out the window, but Gen-4 hands down has the most to offer... with the exception of its extra machine work needed, limited cam selection [but near irrelevant in just about any FI case], and uber-expensive ECU options due to its complexity.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #23
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Thanks for the very detailed post Dan. I read your post on one of the other viper forums about the gen 4 heads and intake. Very informative.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 06:17 AM   #24
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All I can say is everytime I go check my bearings on my gen2, the mains are perfect, and the rod bearings ALL look like shit. Talk to my local engine builder and he tell's me they are running dry somehow. He told me to run a accusump.

Would love to know the cure for this problem.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #25
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All I can say is everytime I go check my bearings on my gen2, the mains are perfect, and the rod bearings ALL look like shit. Talk to my local engine builder and he tell's me they are running dry somehow. He told me to run a accusump.

Would love to know the cure for this problem.
Lucky you....I just so happen to have a Accusump with Valve and switch ready to ship.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by JoelFortin View Post
All I can say is everytime I go check my bearings on my gen2, the mains are perfect, and the rod bearings ALL look like shit. Talk to my local engine builder and he tell's me they are running dry somehow. He told me to run a accusump.

Would love to know the cure for this problem.

How often do you check the bearings?
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Old January 29th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #27
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Thanks to everyone posting helpful info. I was talking with the Wiz one day, and he had mentioned that the Gen 1 block is as strong, if not stronger, than the Gen 2. After reading the thread, it seems that if you subscribe to heaver means stronger, it would be the case. The Gen1 also has steel main caps if I recall correctly.

These questions/debates should be on the boards so that people can make their own decision, or at least be able to talk to a shop intelligently when discussing engine builds.

It literally pisses me off when someone responds with "call so-and-so to find out".. Do you really think they want a bunch of people calling and bothering them with questions all the time when they are trying to deal with customers who want to give them money? Doubt it! (just because they tolerate it, doesn't mean they like it)

There are more than enough Viper educated people on this board, that are willing to share their knowledge, that we shouldn't have to be bothering shops with questions. Get all the facts out there and we all win. I'm not saying that shops should divulge their secrets, but we should bring to light all the current issues with big builds, and if someone wants to have them addressed, they can send it to XxxxX to have it fixed.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 11:28 AM   #28
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Not that it relates to this thread much, but I know Comp Coupes had issues with the crank triggers coming out of the flywheel. I saw it happen to a few of them back in 03.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #29
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It is true that G1 is a wet sleeve. Because of this its much easier to put in bigger sleeves. Issue with the G1 is that you have no real option for a great flowing head. With that said, the G1 with boost can make 1000rwhp on the stock bottom end. That is plenty for 90% of people.

G1 would a performance steal if there was a good in expensive TT kit for them.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:23 PM   #30
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What was changed between gen 1 and gen 2 that prevents cylinder head swaps ?
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Old January 29th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #31
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What was changed between gen 1 and gen 2 that prevents cylinder head swaps ?
Cooling galleries are in different locations.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #32
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How often do you check the bearings?
2-3000 miles. Or once a season.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #33
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Lucky you....I just so happen to have a Accusump with Valve and switch ready to ship.
What size accusump is it. Send me a p/m.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by jrod_okc View Post
Thanks for the very detailed post Dan. I read your post on one of the other viper forums about the gen 4 heads and intake. Very informative.
Could you link to this thread please?

I've been searching for a hour now on info on the gen4 blocks and can barely find squat. What style or location cam/crank sensor orientation do they have to negate a high end ecu system? An AEM can be configured to run lots of different sensors or is that what you mean?

I thought the new Gen5 was the first viper to have a variable cam?

This sounds stupid because I know they flow less but can gen 2 heads go on a gen4 block?

Last edited by primedtsi; January 29th, 2013 at 09:15 PM.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #35
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Gen 2 GTS-R race block is the strongest with the iron lining out of any of the gen's
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Old January 29th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by primedtsi View Post
Could you link to this thread please?

I've been searching for a hour now on info on the gen4 blocks and can barely find squat. What style or location cam/crank sensor orientation do they have to negate a high end ecu system? An AEM can be configured to run lots of different sensors or is that what you mean?

I thought the new Gen5 was the first viper to have a variable cam?

This sounds stupid because I know they flow less but can gen 2 heads go on a gen4 block?
Gen 4 had the first variable cam.

I'm pretty sure gen 2 will bolt up and vise versa. But everything else is different. Exhaust and intake bolt patters , power steering ect , ect
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Old January 29th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #37
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Gen 2 GTS-R race block is the strongest with the iron lining out of any of the gen's
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Old January 30th, 2013, 05:32 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primedtsi View Post
Could you link to this thread please?

I've been searching for a hour now on info on the gen4 blocks and can barely find squat. What style or location cam/crank sensor orientation do they have to negate a high end ecu system? An AEM can be configured to run lots of different sensors or is that what you mean?

I thought the new Gen5 was the first viper to have a variable cam?

This sounds stupid because I know they flow less but can gen 2 heads go on a gen4 block?
Not sure why you would want to do that. Unported Gen4 heads flow much better than ported Gen2. You can always junk the cam-in-cam by block off the port and using a custom ground billet cam. This would be a great swap into older Vipers as you are using a AEM anyway.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 07:20 AM   #39
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Are the Stryker heads configured to fit gen 1 cooling passages as well as later engines?
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Old January 30th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primedtsi View Post
Could you link to this thread please?

I've been searching for a hour now on info on the gen4 blocks and can barely find squat. What style or location cam/crank sensor orientation do they have to negate a high end ecu system? An AEM can be configured to run lots of different sensors or is that what you mean?

I thought the new Gen5 was the first viper to have a variable cam?

This sounds stupid because I know they flow less but can gen 2 heads go on a gen4 block?
School me on cylinder heads.

That is the thread i was referring too.
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