Hope this works out for both of you. I want to see Jrod and Kelly do a 1-2 finish for KOTS.
JRod, what are you going with twin 88's?
Anytime Kelly goes submarine....he's doing upgrades. Maybe TWO twin 88 vipers at KOTS?
88s would be stupid on a street car. Unless you are prepared to spend a shit load of $ to build the right combination for the big ass turbos, it's just a waste and frankly stupid! Just look at the corvette that trapped 175mph plus at the last event. That was with 62s on a smaller engine! Going big is not always the right answer, but what the fuck do I know. I've never built or owned a tt car
88s would be stupid on a street car. Unless you are prepared to spend a shit load of $ to build the right combination for the big ass turbos, it's just a waste and frankly stupid! Just look at the corvette that trapped 175mph plus at the last event. That was with 62s on a smaller engine! Going big is not always the right answer, but what the fuck do I know. I've never built or owned a tt car
7200rpm on a 645ci V10 will make a nice fit for a pair of 88's. It would be slightly laggy but still better than a 88mm 3.4L I-6. In KOTS it's a rolling start at 60mph. Spool isn't a issue.
7200rpm on a 645ci V10 will make a nice fit for a pair of 88's. It would be slightly laggy but still better than a 88mm 3.4L I-6. In KOTS it's a rolling start at 60mph. Spool isn't a issue.
how are you getting 645 ci ? what gen viper block ?
That would be in the 76/78mm range. What a nasty, nasty street car that will be. Good luck and go Kill it at TI.
Not even remotely necessary. Why is the Viper world so stuck on inducer diameter's as the sole reference to turbo sizing? There's only a handful of Viper TT cars running a "76/78" that actually make it worthwhile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed 01
7200rpm on a 645ci V10 will make a nice fit for a pair of 88's. It would be slightly laggy but still better than a 88mm 3.4L I-6. In KOTS it's a rolling start at 60mph. Spool isn't a issue.
The right set of "88's" work great on the right 510, or even a stock stroke 488.
The right set of "88's" work great on the right 510, or even a stock stroke 488.
With the right design and engine build especially with the intake, turbo piping design and heads with a good tuning system like Pectel, Pro EFI or Motec "88's" can be made to be quite streetable.
Sal takes his TT GTS with big T6-91's street cruising and has no issues with it.
how are you getting 645 ci ? what gen viper block ?
4.250b x 4.550s. Gen2 is possible, Hasn't been tried on gen3 yet but should be do-able. Haven't cut up a gen 4 or 5 yet. It's a shit load of work. I stuck with 610ci as it was just a sleeve and billet crank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moundir
That's asinine, no one's built anything near that big on a boosted Viper! The biggest I know is Sal's engine and that's "only" 575ci
Not even remotely necessary. Why is the Viper world so stuck on inducer diameter's as the sole reference to turbo sizing? There's only a handful of Viper TT cars running a "76/78" that actually make it worthwhile.
The right set of "88's" work great on the right 510, or even a stock stroke 488.
Agree. I didn't make myself clear as I was thinking along the lines of a mile/top
Speed car. It would be a bit laggy on the street.
You are 100% correct a 88 does not need to be laggy when setup for street duty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper4Christ
With the right design and engine build especially with the intake, turbo piping design and heads with a good tuning system like Pectel, Pro EFI or Motec "88's" can be made to be quite streetable.
Sal takes his TT GTS with big T6-91's street cruising and has no issues with it.
With the right design and engine build especially with the intake, turbo piping design and heads with a good tuning system like Pectel, Pro EFI or Motec "88's" can be made to be quite streetable.
Sal takes his TT GTS with big T6-91's street cruising and has no issues with it.
Before I post anything, everybody here has to remember that I am one of the biggest advocates of the crazy monster sized turbos as I was the first one to think about and fab up a system with big T-6 turbos before any of the other guys. I love the monster turbos for sure!
To respond to the post here, nobody said a car with monster T-6 Turbos cannot be driven on the street.
The point here is that for 99% of the street applications, even 'real 88's' will be laggy no matter what is the configuration of the turbo system or what kind of stand alone engine management is used.
Bobby's 4.5" stroke deal seems like overkill and is certainly not necessary to have a super snappy spooling twin turbo system capable of making 2000+ HP on a street car. I do not think anybody here can even comprehend that a pair of 67's or 71's set up properly can make 2000 HP and just how much power that is for the traction coefficient of the street.
One other thing people here might not be taking into account is that both Sal and Lee Saunders' cars have automatic transmissions with torque converters that keep those babies spooled up. Most guys do not define "Streetable" as a high stall converter and a 2 or 3 speed automatic transmission. I am not knocking the autos because they are the only way to get consistent results for those kinds of power leevels at the drag strip..... the street is a different kind of animal, that's all.
Last edited by Paolo Castellano; December 24th, 2012 at 12:02 PM.
With the right design and engine build especially with the intake, turbo piping design and heads with a good tuning system like Pectel, Pro EFI or Motec "88's" can be made to be quite streetable.
Sal takes his TT GTS with big T6-91's street cruising and has no issues with it.
The engine management system brand has nothing to do with making a turbo car streetable. For every 6 guys with $10K+ worth of Motec or Pectel on their Viper, I'll show you 5 that don't use 50% of it's capabilities. And for those on Pro EFI, I'll show you someone who bought an EMS that requires a laptop to be in the car to datalog, or have yet another $2K in a datalogging system.
And while Sal and Lee both street drive their GT55 framework turbos with "no issues" on the street, what relevance does it have? I'll put a 35R on my lawnmower and it'll still cut the grass with no issues. If it's not being used, what's it matter?
Anyways though, Paolo is right that a converter hides laggy turbos rather well.
The engine management system brand has nothing to do with making a turbo car streetable. For every 6 guys with $10K+ worth of Motec or Pectel on their Viper, I'll show you 5 that don't use 50% of it's capabilities
Honestly, it would seem the biggest part of making a radical car streetable is map resolution. All these aftermarket ems's seem to have plenty of that.
Most people associate the term "streetable turbo system" with how well it drives/spools. Well, if it has good fueling and ignition control and TPS enrichment, it'll probably drive fine. There is no magic "spool faster" key in an EMS system, outside of utilizing an anti-lag or 2/3 step, etc.
Both of which, just about every EMS system down to HPtuners for GM stuff has.
The majority (hence the 5/6) of people with a high end electronics system, meaning your typical Motec or Pectel install in this market, aren't using the system for anything more than your basic EMS functions. Fuel, ignition, boost, rev limiter, map switching, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.8t
Honestly, it would seem the biggest part of making a radical car streetable is map resolution. All these aftermarket ems's seem to have plenty of that.
Exactly. Unless people have systems using up a bunch of available inputs for lots of sensory and telemetry data and a whole bunch of fancy output controls and Drive By Wire, they aren't really utilizing what those EMS systems have to offer up in exchange for their pricetag.
My Pectel is decently utilized IMO. Boost by gear, TC, Launch control and Flex fuel w/ auto adjusting of timing/fuel/boost... all dependant on the E %.
And no I'm not changing turbos. My set-up works just fine, and it took care of business at TI until a stupid OEM sensor placement took me out of the competition.
My Viper is the ultimate 6sp TT build and it's getting even stronger for 2013.
The majority (hence the 5/6) of people with a high end electronics system, meaning your typical Motec or Pectel install in this market, aren't using the system for anything more than your basic EMS functions. Fuel, ignition, boost, rev limiter, map switching, etc.
I would have to disagree. All of the Pectel installs we have done pushed the limits on what was utilized. In general, we push the customers to maximize the "usage per dollar" as far as possible. If the ECU has all kinds of extra strategies inherent to it that just need a few sensors added to operate, you would be crazy not to utilize them for the sake of more fine control, safety, logging capability and record keeping.
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