I had the factory sensors on my car for years with no known problems but switched to the DC Performance "quick fires" when I put my Belnger headers on. I was getting preheat codes, and these were supposed to fix that (they really didn't). So, with the tuning issues I've got now, I was thinking that maybe a new set of O2's would be a good reference point to know that they are 100%. Is the factory (Bosch?) still the best choice? Ditch the quick fires? I have them mounted in the merge collector BTW, not in the factory single tube Belanger spot.
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coiner of biggest, sprinkler boy coiner of ~TommyWesterner~ discoverer that the 2 button rep system has too many options
I've been told that mounting the factory narrow band O2's in the merge collector on long tube headers will cause codes to be thrown due to the O2's not heating up quickly enough. That being said, mounting them in a single primary tube will allow the sensor to only monitor that one particular cylinder which can be dangerous, especially on a forced induction engine. I've run into the same problem and I'm exploring options now as I'm converting over from AEM to SCT.
It seems the only safe way to mount the factory narrow band O2 in a single primary location, is to run stand alone wide band O2's in the merge collectors so you can monitor all cylinders. Another option would be to just ignore the preheat codes and leave the factory narrow band 02's in the merge collectors.
Will told me that with the SCT he was able to set the counter on preheat codes so high it will never throw a code in our lifetime. SCT +.
He also said that the SCT is a horrible tuning platform for the Roe. Which he claims to be part of the problem with my car (wants to die when you give it gas). SCT -.
I'm hoping the adaptive will work through this. So, me thinks me will get a set of oem's back in there, and see what happens.
Chaging your O2 sensors will not help your issue. Transient fueling is not controlled by the O2 sensor. There are many different ways to solve this issue with the SCT. While having the 2 bar sensor does make it tricky, (loss of load resolution) it can be done.
I threw my "Quick Fire" sensors in the garbage a while ago. I went back to OEM after finding out that the "quick fires" are simply Walker sensors. I only purchased them to help with the CEL issue on slow O2 heater warmup issue since my O2's are located in the merge collector where they should be.
Now that the SCT software is able to change the O2 preheat counter in the PCM there's no need to change to a different sensor especially if one already has the SCT tuner.
I went back to Mopar OEM sensors. Don't waste your money on "quick fires". If you decide to go that route, PM me and I'll send you the Walker product code for the "quick fires" and you can save some money.
Chaging your O2 sensors will not help your issue. Transient fueling is not controlled by the O2 sensor. There are many different ways to solve this issue with the SCT. While having the 2 bar sensor does make it tricky, (loss of load resolution) it can be done.
Michael
Do tell us about how to solve my riddle with the SCT
I was getting the P0135 code (O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction - Bank 1, Sensor 1). I have Belanger headers. Through my research, I found that a faster heat up rate for the O2 sensors is the issue. Apparently having a less restrictive head on the sensor helps with the viper aftermarket header problem. I replaced both of the upstream sensors (Denso 234-4076) and purchased them from RockAuto (RockAuto Auto Parts) for $32.79 each ($73.69 total with shipping). I haven't had any codes in a year.
Good info LIG. But like I stated, I'm no longer trying to solve preheat codes, just looking for the best sensor while deciding that new ones will put them out of the question box.
My $.02. I had all the aforementioned issues, swaped several sensors, used the Denso ones, etc...I ended up using my SCT to reprogram the heater code CEL range as several have posted. Worked like a charm. Also, I have no issue using the 2-bar MAP w the SCT to tune my ROE...but I can use all the available MAP and timing cells for resolution since my boost is right at the 2-bar limit (14-16 PSI of boost.). If you use a 2-bar and SCT and only have around 8-10 PSI of boost, you will not be able to use all of the available resolution that the stock PCM allows. What you really need to do in these cases is use a 1.5 BAR MAP sensor (if such a thing exists) so at max boost, your MAP sensor is putting out a WOT voltage equal to what the PCM is nornally expecting. Hard to explain, but your boost and MAP need to be matched so that at max boost, your MAP voltage is maxed corresponding to the final fuel/timing cell in the PCM. With a 2-BAR MAP, the only way to do that is to have 2-bar of boost being sensed at the sensor.
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"Aspice, officio fungeris sine spe honoris amplioris." (Face it, you're stuck in a dead end job.)
I had good luck with these. I was not using an SCT, instead a Vec 3. With the Roe and as much as I played with the tuning, I could never get the car to idle correctly by having the 02's in the single tube. Adaptives were always all over the place and would always make the engine idle wierd.
I replaced both factory 02 sensors, placed them in the collector as you did, and it fixed my idle/tuning issues. I went with Bosch Premium O2 sensors and purchased from Pepboys (Part # 13100 I believe)
Never had any issues after that.
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Castellano TT System - Evolution Series
Last edited by Twinscrewd; October 25th, 2012 at 09:56 PM.
I also have the balangers headers and had a sensor go bad. I replaced it with a Bosch from NAPA. I also have the balanger exhausts and mounted my widebands in the small transition pipe between the rear exhaust and the pipe in the sill. That small transition comes out easily, therefore, easy to weld in the bung.
On another note, your adaptives are not going fix the push/pull from a base fuel map fighting the O2's when the fuel map no longer is based upon the correct volumetric efficiency. I would bet if you look at long term adaptives they are very high and move all over the place. The fuel map can be corrected, it just takes some time.
Just to give a quick update... I got the Bosch 13100's from Rock Auto - $73.20 shipped for the pair - and am gonna put them in within the next week or so.
Still have the stumble off idle so I've been perfecting my neighborhood smoke free burnout launches that skip the transition from idle to go.
Thanks for all the technical comments BTW. I'll post results etc after the install.
Just to update this, I did get the Bosch sensors (thanks Rock Auto) installed earlier this week, have made a few drives, and no apparent miracle cure of the tuning issues. Not that it was predicted to cure anything, but it was more of a returning to stock in that department so it would not need further discussion.
It *seems* however... to have slightly changed the driving away from idle tuning problem. In other words, it sputters a little differently now. But it still sputters.
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