Yup, fly in the face of the current wisdom man! That's what I do.. my ideas are radical to some I guess. The viper motor has the makeings of a EXTREMELY reliable and VERY powerful motor.. it just takes people to experiment to lead to innovation.
Many people think i'm daft for trying a turbo... but shit, if no one did it other than HMS (cough cough CROOK cough), then would we ever really know? Now there are some other new guys on the block as well... innovation RULES!
I'm hopeing this APEXi thing works out well... i've been talking with some people who have already extracted 14RWHP by modifying the top end fuel curve (w/o touching the off idle stuff). I suspect there is MUCH more there that could be had with a bit of work... and the addition of other power adders would only increase those numbers.
EXACTLY, MY POINT -
With the current price and availability of used intakes, the
cost/benefit ratio would be hard to beat.
And for the DIYers, if you ever wanted to port something - this would be
your safest bet - the only real critical point would be matching the intake
port where it mates to the gasket/head .
Thanks Jason
[quote=Jason Heffner] Once again let me reiterate. As I said in my initial post, this is an experiment that I am working on. I never said that I was the first one to do this, as a matter of fact I know I'm not the first to do it. Lingenfelter does this on all of his N/A cars. I also never said that everyone had to buy it. I just thought some of you would like to see some pictures while the project was still under development. One thing is for sure, it will yield higher hp gains than any cat back exhaust system at roughly the same price. Another thing I would like to say is that just because someone else was not happy with the way their intake turned out does not necessarily mean that it could not work for me. When I first started making supercharger systems for the Vipers everyone I talked to said that it couldn't be done safely on a Viper engine. They told me that McClure did several cars and they all blew up. If I had stopped development at that point, there would be quite a few less 750 - 800=rwhp Vipers out there today. <hr /></blockquote>
Well said! This is to me what defines entrepeneurship. The basic belief that it can be done, and believing in oneself is one of the most fundamental american beliefs that i really admire. French & italians -analysis paralysis. Germans -has to be perfect and if it's unknown they won't do it. Scandinavians -it can't be done until it's practically built, marketed and sold....
Jason, you could not have said it better than you did! I remember seeing George Bryce's LPE 540 Stroker engine on the engine dyno the day I went to visit. There are two things for sure: 1. Lingenfelter has made more total horsepower than any tuner ever. 2. George Bryce's car was 10.2 @ 136 MPH at the Voi drags on motor only. That's a pretty fast MPH for a car making 630 RWHP.
"If I had stopped development at that point, there would be quite a few less 750 - 800=rwhp Vipers out there today." ==> I am glad you kept developing your supercharger application. Gary A's car is testament to your greatness as a Viper tuner and regular pusher of the envelope.
With thinking like mad maxx's, the wheel would have never been invented! What do you expect from a guy who is spending big $$$$$$$ to develop a turbo kit for a car that there were not very many built and that is no longer made? Maxx, I know you have good intentions, but you should sell that outdated, flexing chassis relic and at least upgrade to a GTS and be able to sell it to more than just a few people! Paolo
[quote=Jason Heffner] Once again let me reiterate. As I said in my initial post, this is an experiment that I am working on. I never said that I was the first one to do this, as a matter of fact I know I'm not the first to do it. Lingenfelter does this on all of his N/A cars. I also never said that everyone had to buy it. I just thought some of you would like to see some pictures while the project was still under development. One thing is for sure, it will yield higher hp gains than any cat back exhaust system at roughly the same price. Another thing I would like to say is that just because someone else was not happy with the way their intake turned out does not necessarily mean that it could not work for me. When I first started making supercharger systems for the Vipers everyone I talked to said that it couldn't be done safely on a Viper engine. They told me that McClure did several cars and they all blew up. If I had stopped development at that point, there would be quite a few less 750 - 800=rwhp Vipers out there today. <hr /></blockquote>
"With thinking like mad maxx's, the wheel would have never been invented! What do you expect from a guy who is spending big $$$$$$$ to develop a turbo kit for a car that there were not very many built and that is no longer made? Maxx, I know you have good intentions, but you should sell that outdated, flexing chassis relic and at least upgrade to a GTS and be able to sell it to more than just a few people! Paolo"
Boy, I hope your fucking kidding...
With thinking like mine? What the fuck are you talking about?
If you wish to speak, you must remove heffners cock from your mouth first.
[quote=MadMaxx] "With thinking like mad maxx's, the wheel would have never been invented! What do you expect from a guy who is spending big $$$$$$$ to develop a turbo kit for a car that there were not very many built and that is no longer made? Maxx, I know you have good intentions, but you should sell that outdated, flexing chassis relic and at least upgrade to a GTS and be able to sell it to more than just a few people! Paolo"
Boy, I hope your fucking kidding...
With thinking like mine? What the fuck are you talking about?
If you wish to speak, you must remove heffners cock from your mouth first.
MM
<hr /></blockquote>
Hey, come on now. Paolo's comment wasn't that personal. I think he worded it perhaps inflammatory, but he does offer another point of view.
I value all of you guys input in this thread, i am not skilled in the art of tuning and i often find the contrarian view to be valuable because it forces me to re-evaluate what has been said. In that context your comments MadMaxx have been really good (you are the proverbial McGuyver after all). Still the anonymity of the internet does not allow one to be uncivilized, let's stay away from person attacks and especially in a forum like this -lets keep things constructive (as pretty much all of this thread has been).
I know that in computer science (my special field [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), tuning is a hotly debated topic. I have written a book on the topic of enterprise class server and storage tuning and it is one of the most debated, heated inflammatory topics one can choose. It strikes me that tuning of cars is similar to tuning computers, it's part science, part beliefs and parts black magic. Let's keep that in mind in these discussions.
You didn't see what he replied.. I had removed it. Now THAT was a very bad smack attempt.. but I was already pissed anyway so I guess the little guy got the brunt of it.
Maxx, you cant remove threads wihtout a poll unless someone was committing some tremendously flagrant illegal act or some thread that would cause actual danger. You get my drift. Lets just take this one incident as "growing pains" and move on. To the members we applogize, as this isolated incident does not reflect the policies of viperalley.
I think Heffners intake mod looks good. Sure others have cut open intakes and done their own porting and gotten mixed results. I have never tried it because I also thought it would be a lot of work for a little power. My guess is that Heffner will get at least 15 rw hp from this mod. I know that extrudehone is worth 8-10 rw. So it boils down to what you are trying to acheive. If you are trying to get the most NA power you can get, than 8 rw hp here and 15 rw hp there all add up. And in a lot of cases are the difference of one car running 127 mph and another car running 132 mph in the 1/4 mile.
Having tried a lot of different engine mods, changes, designs, combinations on the Viper over the last 10 yrs I have found that for every one item you find makes power, you probably tried another 3-4 things that didnt gain or lost power. The only way you find these things is trial and error. Once you spend the time to find the items and combos that work and have a proven system, than everyone wants to copy it. The same guys that say "it wont work, you are wasting your time" are also the first guys to try to copy it when it does work and you kick their asses at the track or dyno.
So I respect anybody willing to try something new, wether it works or not is irrelevant. Somebody had to try a wet NOS system on the Viper, had to try direct port, had to try slicks, had to try turbos, etc. Some work, some dont, but the eventual proof is at the track.
So for those of you who have a new idea or simply think you can make something better than the next guy, then jump in the ring and step up and do it. You wil get the respect. The guys who want to theorize all day long on their computers but fail to build anything, much less copy somebody elses stuff are insignificant and wont have the numbers from the dyno or track.
[quote=MadMaxx] You didn't see what he replied.. I had removed it. Now THAT was a very bad smack attempt.. but I was already pissed anyway so I guess the little guy got the brunt of it.
MM <hr /></blockquote>
Max, Bad attempt my ass! It was so good it made you crazy! Isnt that what smack is supposed to do? You could not take the truth! ==> I will have to change my tactics for a person with a psychological profile like yourself... All I have to say to you after seeing your avatar is this: In addition to being a snappy dresser, you are both a handsome and powerful man! [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img]
P.S. Sell that POS and start with a real car! The offer I made earlier that you deleted still stands=> I will race you with my Heffner car if you ever get those exhaust gases to do you any good for you and I will spank you silly BOY! Is that good enough smack for you maxey pad? Have a nice night there zippy! :fist:
==> I will have to change my tactics for a person with a psychological profile like yourself... All I have to say to you after seeing your avatar is this: In addition to being a snappy dresser, you are both a handsome and powerful man! [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img]