Would you buy a Fuel Cell vehicle? Shit things look bad for IC engines

Smokin

Fuckin Enviro-nazis are at it again. Read this writeup on fuel cell vehicles. I can picture them making IC engines illegal within 20 years if this really takes off:

TOKYO (Reuters) - Less than a week after its biggest Japanese rival touted the economic and ecological benefits of hybrids, General Motors made a case of its own on Monday: only hydrogen-fueled cars will survive in the endgame.


As the debate heats up over what the car of the future will ultimately look like, auto makers are staging a loud public relations battle to play up their strengths and justify the huge spending on developing the technologies so far.


Just last Thursday, Japan's top auto maker, Toyota Motor, invited journalists to tour the production site of its new Prius hybrid to demonstrate how cheaply they could be built by sharing an assembly line with conventional mass-market cars.


But Larry Burns, GM's vice president of research, development and planning, said zero-emission fuel cell vehicles (FCV) will eventually make gasoline-electric hybrids obsolete, rejecting Toyota's view that hybrids will remain on the road even after FCVs become affordable for the average consumer.


"The race needs to be judged with a long-term view -- the goal is to get automobiles out of the environmental debate altogether," he told Reuters in an interview.


Hybrids use electric motors and battery packs to improve fuel efficiency, adding power during acceleration and reclaiming energy when braking and coasting, but still need gasoline to run.


GM has invested about $1 billion in developing fuel cells to power electric motors in vehicles, and wants to be the first auto maker to sell a million FCVs. It hopes to commercialize FCVs by 2010 -- one of the most optimistic targets in the industry.


Japan's Toyota and Honda Motor became the first to put a saleable FCV on the road last year, but the cars are only on lease since they still cost millions of dollars to produce.


Despite the many hurdles that remain to make FCVs commercially viable -- such as a lack of infrastructure and safety standards -- Burns said weaning the industry off gasoline would become imperative as fledgling car markets like those in China and India continue to grow.


"If you look at the growth of economies in the world -- whether it be the U.S., Japan, Europe, or Brazil, Russia, India, China and Korea -- commensurate with that is the growth in energy consumption," he said.


And with many countries relying almost 100 percent on foreign oil, they would eventually want vehicles that don't o conventional gasoline combustion engines in the interim before FCVs take over.


In a week-long presentation in Tokyo with its Japanese affiliates that started on Monday, the GM group will showcase other cutting-edge technology such as truck maker Isuzu Motors' clean diesel engines and Fuji Heavy Industries' research into next-generation car batteries.


GM, which also has a capital alliance with minivehicle maker Suzuki Motor and South Korea (news - web sites)'s Daewoo Motor in Asia, plans to begin selling its first gas-electric hybrid cars next year.

BigCarrot

My vehicle has a fuel cell!

NOITALL

too fucking bad. I'll never own one, slow POS's.

Honda's hybrid civic is over 30K up here, you gotta drive it for many, many years before you start to see a $$ savings in your fuel expenses.

Smokin

Electric cars SHOULD be faster than IC cars. An electric motor can make 100% of its torque instantaneously. Talk about a hole shot. Thing is, you cant supercharge them, they wont spit flames, and they sure as shit dont sound cool.

GTS Dean

Electric cars have radically low CGs.

The whole fuel cell issue really will cause problems with funding of highway maintenance and expansion projects. Nearly all of the public road system is financed by by user fees, funded thru motor fuel sales tax and Federal Excise Tax. As vehicles become more fuel efficient, the funding stream gets smaller. Alternative Fuel vehicles will need to be taxed in some sort of equitable manner so that the roadway infrastructure which they still utilize can be maintained. There ain't no free lunch just because you don't pollute the air.

E-Slab

[scroll]word count whore[/scroll]

GTS Dean

:fist:

Lawrenzo

I think that it's only a matter of time before the IC engine becomes obsolete. Not to say that they won't be around, but I would guess that they will be licensed as "show" or "low use" cars, and punished with overly burdensome taxes. All I can say is enjoy 'em now. Get those garage queens out on the road before the 93 octane costs $10 a gallon [img]/images/graemlins/cry.gif[/img]



From my cold dead hands [img]/images/graemlins/gasthrower.gif[/img]

catwood

A) Wait until one of the batteries blow up. It will happen. Batteries have a horrible infant mortality rate and with enough population, one will someday. hopefully on the charge cycle while no one is in the vehicle, rather than in rapid discharge state heading up the on ramp.

B) Wait until they need to be replaced......$$$ouch$$$

C) Where you going to get rid of the dead crap? Can you say Hazardous Waste Disposal?


D) Hot rodding will change.....We always adapt!

Chuck 98 RT10

What ever happened to the hydrogen powered cars?

catwood

Chuck....I think you could rejet one those for more RWHP. Probably need to go with forged internals though.

Carl

Chuck 98 RT10

I've brought it up before but the conversation always turns to these pussy fuel cell things. They just seem like such a waste of effort.

I remember 20 years ago watching a vid in chemistry class about an experimental hydrogen bus in Kalifornia. Looked promising. Although it no doubt shook up the oil industry and tax folks.

catwood

I think we ought to go steam reactor. Then just a matter of upping the boost.

I've seen Hydrogen go boom!

Carl

Whitebeard

It isn't a car, but I can't help but see this as a forcast of what could happen.
[image]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/KNO/7148P4.jpg[/image]

Matt

I'm guessing they'd do with out the cigarette lighters.

NOITALL

beat you by an hour slowpoke!

TomH

I think we are all going to be driving electric it 50 years, I have a electric scooter that will pull wheelies, lots of low end torque and goes 12 miles on a charge at 30 mph. A ride on a Badsey Racer will make you a believer in electrics.

Chuck 98 RT10

The Hindenburg wasn't liquid hydrogen was it? Regardless, there has got to be a way to store it safely. It's not like you'd need a bigass tank like the space shuttle. Couldn't it be produced only as the motor runs so just enough would be available to run the motor? I hate the idea of electric. No explosive sound. Boring.

CS

Me too Chuck.. Can you imagine electric road racing? *WHIRRRR, WHIIIRRRR, WHIRRRR*? It sucks [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Let's all