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So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

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So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:32 PM   #1
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So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3135932.stm

Basically it talks about an upcoming report that states that the official word will be there were no WMD in Iraq. It seems to me this is pretty much a given at this point, I don't expect any major WMD evidence (or any evidence) to arise.


I grabbed this from another forum...."then and now".

=========
Then:
=========

8/26/02 Cheney: Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us. (Remarks to VFW, 8/26/03).

9/02 Rumsfeld: Rumsfeld told Congress that Saddam’s "regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas…” (U.S. News 6/03).

9/19/2002 Rumsfeld: There are a number of terrorist states pursuing weapons of mass destruction -- Iran, Libya, North Korea, Syria, just to name but a few. But no terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. (Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing Transcript, 9/19/2002)

10/06/02 Bush: Saddam Hussein could strike without notice and inflict "massive and sudden horror" on America. (AP, 10/6/02)

1/28/03 Bush: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” (The State of the Union Address, 1/28/03)

2/05/03 Powell: “Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets.” (Remarks, U.N., 2/05/03)

2/08/03 Bush: "We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." (Radio Address, 2/08/03)

3/16/03 Cheney: “We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” (The Washington Post, 5/20/03)

3/17/03 Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." (Address, D.C., 3/17/03)

3/30/03 Rumsfeld: "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." (Remarks, ABC, 3/30/03)


=========
Now:
=========

Spring 2003 Bush official: “The Iraqis may have poured it into the ground someplace.” (The Washington Post, 4/10/03; Newsday, 3/16/03)

5/04/03 Rumsfeld: "We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country." (Interview, Fox News, 5/04/03)

5/12/03 Rice: U.S. never expected that “we were going to open garages and find” WMDs.” (Reuters, 5/12/03)

5/27/03 Rumsfeld: "They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer."

(Remarks, Council on Foreign Relations, 5/27/03)

6/03/03 Lt. Gen. James Conway: “We were simply wrong…. It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered [nuclear, chemical, or biological] weapons [in Iraq.] … believe me, it’s not for lack of trying. We’ve been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwait border and Baghdad, but they’re simply not there.” (L.A. Times 6/03/03)

6/16/03 Bush: “And we acted in Iraq, as well. We made it clear to the dictator of Iraq that he must disarm. We asked other nations to join us in seeing to it that he would disarm, and he chose not to do so, so we disarmed him. And I know there's a lot of revisionist history now going on, but one thing is certain. He is no longer a threat to the free world, and the people of Iraq are free.” (Remarks, 6/16/03)

7/06/03 Former Amb. Joseph C. Wilson IV: “The vice president's office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government. The question now is how that answer was or was not used by our political leadership.” (Op-Ed, The New York Times, 7/06/03)

7/09/03: Senator Pryor: When did you know that the reports about uranium coming out of Africa were bogus?

Rumsfeld: Well, within recent days, since the information started becoming available. (Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing, 7/09/03)

7/09/03: Question: Yes, Mr. President. Do you regret that your State of the Union accusation that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Africa is now fueling charges that you and Prime Minister Blair misled the public?

Bush: “[T]here's no doubt in my mind, when it's all said and done, the facts will show the world the truth. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. And so there's going to be a lot of attempts to try to rewrite history, and I can understand that. But I am absolutely confident in the decision I made.… One thing is for certain, he's not trying to buy anything right now.” (Remarks, 7/09/03)

7/13/2003: Mr. Russert: In March, you did say, "We know where they are?"

Rumsfeld: Yeah. The phrase was almost always suspect sites, and in -- the next day one would have to say where they were, not where they are, because things are moveable. And when you can take a relatively small amount of very lethal chemical or biological weapons or capability, and move it in an hour, and -- I mean, think of the person went out under their rosebush in the back yard of their private home and dug up things that he'd been told to bury there a decade.... (Meet The Press, 7/13/2003)


===========================







What does this make you guys feel? Yes, I know Saddam was a bad guy, and I don't feel sorry for him one bit. But I do worry about the damage to our perception in the world. Some may not care about that, but the way people feel about us is what leads to things like 9/11. I am also curious what Bush's REAL goal was for going into Iraq? I tend to think he really believed Saddam had WMD but I wonder if they were kidding themselves (i.e. inclusion of dubious reports in speeches given to the public). So second question - what do you think were the driving factors behind this war? I think oil was part of it, as was ensuring US-friendly ties in the region and getting out of Saudi.

Last question - what do you feel this does for our anti-terrorism efforts? I think our progress in Afghanistan has been pretty shit-poor. When you see the $$ spent on military vs. rebuilding, I think it's very skewed in a bad way. I also think if we don't seriously help those people in Afghanistan, in 10 years we'll have a whole new round of Jihad-Freddie's waiting to fly a plane into something or other.


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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:40 PM   #2
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Gerald and NightStalker have insider information that suggests Bush is holding back on annoucing WOMD finds until we are closer to the election.

I wouldnt be suprsied if this cost Bush his re-election.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:42 PM   #3
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by packetjunkie
Gerald and NightStalker have insider information that suggests Bush is holding back on annoucing WOMD finds until we are closer to the election.

I wouldnt be suprsied if this cost Bush his re-election.
Call your contacts MP. You know the ones that I speak of.

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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:45 PM   #4
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

And this is just one of the reasons his ratings continue to drop daily. I heard on the news this morning, that according to Hillary's camp, if his ratings drop any lower then she will be forced to run for President.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:47 PM   #5
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by King GTS
And this is just one of the reasons his ratings continue to drop daily. I heard on the news this morning, that according to Hillary's camp, if his ratings drop any lower then she will be forced to run for President.
Forced? FORCED?? Forced by the drooling power mad momentum of her own opportunism, she means! [img]/images/graemlins/flip2.gif[/img]
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:47 PM   #6
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by packetjunkie
Gerald and NightStalker have insider information that suggests Bush is holding back on annoucing WOMD finds until we are closer to the election.

I wouldnt be suprsied if this cost Bush his re-election.
Call your contacts MP. You know the ones that I speak of.
Thing is, I have some "contacts" on the inside also and I heard the same stuff, that WMD HAD been found, and that "something big" was going to come out soon. I have heard this from many many people.

But when a report is coming saying there were NO WMD, *AND* Bush, Rumsfeld and Powell are basically backpeddling and admitting it, then I have to think these reports are flawed. I don't buy that Bush is waiting for an election to release the evidence. If he is, then he's more contemptible than even Clinton, because we have young men and women dying over there and if we knew there was WMD, maybe other countries would be more quick to send in their troops to help. Clinton killed some bad guys to cover up a blowjob... if Bush is letting Americans die to get re-elected he should be in jail.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:51 PM   #7
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

I never cared if there were WMD, I wanted to kick some raghead ass. Iraq was a good place to start, although Saudi would have been better.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 01:51 PM   #8
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Glad he didn't have them. And if we later find them, then i am glad he didn't use them. Gives a new meaning to the boy who cries wolf. And I don't really give a fuck about what the rest of the world thinks.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:03 PM   #9
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck 98 RT10
I never cared if there were WMD, I wanted to kick some raghead ass. Iraq was a good place to start, although Saudi would have been better.
That's probably just about what the terrorists thought who killed 3,000 of our people...

"I don't care if they didn't attack us I just want to kick some American ass... New York was a good place to start, although the whitehouse would have been better".

If you want to get into a war of attrition Chuck, be my guest, but your thought process pretty much leads to more terrorism, which, by your way of thinking would lead to more ass-kicking, and eventually an all out war between christianity and islam. And if we're trying to exterminate any islamic people, what makes us any different than the Nazis? I'm just glad people like you are limited to talking on internet message boards and aren't the sort of folks who make it into government positions of power [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:09 PM   #10
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck 98 RT10
I never cared if there were WMD, I wanted to kick some raghead ass. Iraq was a good place to start, although Saudi would have been better.
Fuckin A! But the US is really screwed without the WOMD. Really. Everyone knows that torture camps with power tools are considered "ok" by the masses, and we can turn a blind eye. But the WOMD? Oh, this is really bad, much worse than taking a chainsaw to someone's leg, or power drill for example. Hell doesn't every country do this to their people?

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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:38 PM   #11
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Don't forget 70+% of the American people have been mislead (read: lied) to by our President into thinking Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11th attacks on the US.

Much of the "I dont care about WOMD" arguements today are probably a direct result of that misconception.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:38 PM   #12
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

[quote=SRT Mike
If you want to get into a war of attrition Chuck, be my guest, but your thought process pretty much leads to more terrorism, which, by your way of thinking would lead to more ass-kicking, and eventually an all out war between christianity and islam. [/quote]

Well, don't look now, but from the zealots point of view, that is what this already is Mike; an all out war between christianity and islam. Or at the very least replace christianity with westernization or "any person or people whose general philosophy does not involve killing those who do not follow that particular strict code of the Koran" (the specific word for that code escapes me right now). That being said, I think it is being played out, but not being said, that we are taking it to these islamic zealots in Iraq, Afghanistan, The Phillipines, Chechnya (more so the Russians there) and other places in the world. Can we proclaim "Crusades against the followers of Allah!"? Of course not. In fact, I don't think from our (westerners) point of view, that it is so much a religious fight; rather we know it is religious islamic zealots who are our real enemy to western life and covert ops in Afghanistan and a war overthrowing Saddam's regime in Iraq are just the first few strikes in a broad and long-lasting battle against the terrorists that exist; this includes the prospect of taking a humiliated and down-trodden, yet proud people and giving them opportunities to prosper on their own rather than nurture hatred toward the West while their dictators (Arafat) and Imams (pick one) tell them it is our fault that they live in dirt huts.

Are there other factors for the war that can be pointed to? Blood for Oil and American Lives for political gain for instance? Sure. Politics and money will always play into decision-making, but while you have to make heavy speculation and criminalize Bush greater than any president in our history to make those claims, the arguement for war in the interest of national security is pretty much bullet proof. IMHO.

:waitingforMPtopileon:

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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:47 PM   #13
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

I would rather shoot myself than vote for Hillary for President. If she becomes the democrats front runner, I will VOLUNTEER my services to the GOP to do whatever I can to keep that Cunt from leading this country. Fuckin liberal gestapo scandalous bitch.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:47 PM   #14
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

There was no "bullet proof" reason to invade Iraq - I said it before the War and I say it today - this was pure politics - nothing more. Bush is fighting a 10 year old war with 10 year old rationals.

Iraq wasn't a threat to us anymore than alot of other nations that don't care for us, yet have no active programs to attack us.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:51 PM   #15
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

What I don't understand is if Bush knew it wasn't about WMD, he also had to know that he would be found out. If found out, re-election chances are tenuous.

Why would he put himself in that position? I don't get it.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 02:56 PM   #16
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

I think Bush went in with guns blazing, without proof, because he believed Saddam had WOMD. He hated the man enough to put it all on the line - remember, Saddam tried to assassinate his father.

I think he wanted any excuse he could think of to launch this War and he found one with 9/11 (same with his "no deficits except in the event of war" pledge). That there are no WOMD could ultimately cost him his job and history will remember him as the President who went to War for all the wrong reasons.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 03:06 PM   #17
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck 98 RT10
I never cared if there were WMD, I wanted to kick some raghead ass. Iraq was a good place to start, although Saudi would have been better.
That's probably just about what the terrorists thought who killed 3,000 of our people...

"I don't care if they didn't attack us I just want to kick some American ass... New York was a good place to start, although the whitehouse would have been better".

If you want to get into a war of attrition Chuck, be my guest, but your thought process pretty much leads to more terrorism, which, by your way of thinking would lead to more ass-kicking, and eventually an all out war between christianity and islam. And if we're trying to exterminate any islamic people, what makes us any different than the Nazis? I'm just glad people like you are limited to talking on internet message boards and aren't the sort of folks who make it into government positions of power [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
You may have been on a roll yesterday with your ACLU defense of remster, but this post just makes you sound like some glib CNN pundit making a stupid ill-considered sound bite analogy. You'd better back up this peace train before you get owned.
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(
Old September 24th, 2003, 03:09 PM   #18
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Re: So it looks like there never were any WMD :(