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Originally Posted by Greg Good Cylinder Heads
Snorman, I'll tell you what "taking a swipe at someone" ...... or "stabbing someone in the back" is. When you take a set of heads and go get a phony flow sheet, spread slander all around the Viper world based on it, and then the head proter has to pay out of his own pocket to get a legit test done to clear himself. That's back stabbing.
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I never wanted to get into any of this mess, but because this whole debacle involves MY heads and I have the first hand experience with the whole thing, I think I should probably say something.
Here are the facts:
In approximately November/December of 2006, I contacted Greg Good about porting a set of heads for my GTS, along with a lower intake manifold for my Roe blower. Joe Donovan was going to do all the work and do all the tuning. Joe suggested that rather than waste time tearing my car down and then shipping parts back and forth, that he would send to Greg a set of his own stock heads as cores and a spare lower manifold as a core, and have Greg port those. That would keep my car together while the work was being done. Once we got the parts back, Joe would simply swap out the heads and lower manifold, giving me the ported parts I had paid for and taking my stock parts to replace his cores. Sounded like a good plan.
By February of 2007, the heads and lower manifold were complete, Greg was paid, and Greg shipped everything to Joe Donovan. Now it was simply a matter of waiting on Joe to pick up the car to do the head and manifold swap.
March came and went. April came and went. May came and went. Then June, July, August and September came and went. Joe never picked up my car. He did not keep any of the tentative appointments we had and my car was never touched. At least my car was still together and running. However, all of my parts were still at Joe’s, and my car was here.
By September of 2007, having lost basically the entire racing season, I had grown tired of waiting for Joe and decided to call someone else about doing work on my car. I called Kevin at Underground Racing and discussed having Underground Racing pull the Roe off and do one of their $15k blower specials. I told Kevin I would ship him the car and the set of heads I had Greg do for me. The car got to UGR the first of October and then I had to try to get my heads back from Joe. Ultimately, I had someone else go to Joe’s shop, physically take the heads and ship them to UGR. Kevin said he didn’t have any problem using Greg’s heads on my car if it would help me save money. He did say that because I had decided to go with a bigger cam than the stock 708, we would need to at least change out the springs. Greg had already told me the same thing. No surprise there.
All the Roe stuff was pulled off and sold, the motor was pulled out and sent off for the build and UGR was going to have the springs changed out for me to accommodate the larger cam and the Paxton, rather than the Roe blower. Kevin suggested having the heads flowed to make sure they would work with the Paxton and larger cam, knowing I had them built specifically for the Roe with a stock cam.
Kevin called me a couple of weeks later and told me that he had the heads flowed and the numbers were not what he was expecting. He asked me for the flow sheet which Greg had provided, and I sent it to him. He said the numbers were pretty far off, so he’d take them somewhere else to have them checked. He called me another week or so later and said that the second shop came up with basically the same numbers as the first shop and that the heads would not provide much, if any, benefit to my new setup.
During this period of time, Greg PM’d me from time to time to ask me how the car was coming along and if we were still going to use the heads that he had ported for me. I told him that we changed the build and I wasn’t sure anymore. I did NOT mention the flow numbers. He offered to change out the springs for no charge so that they would work with the new cam. At this point, I had already heard the flow numbers and Kevin and I had pretty much made the decision not to use them. I simply didn’t want to tell Greg why. Greg got very upset with me for not telling him what was going on with the heads, and in a PM to me on November 18, 2007 told me he didn't want his heads on a UGR car anyway. I told Kevin what was going on and Kevin called Greg to tell him about the flow numbers.
Greg apparently turned around and called Joe Donovan, because Joe Donovan then called me. Joe said, “Dude, I didn’t steal your heads.” I didn’t know what the hell he was talking about. He said that Greg had told him about the low flow numbers and wanted to make sure that Joe didn’t “accidentally” ship out a set of stock heads and keep the ported ones. So Joe goes on to assure me that the heads that Justin shipped to UGR were the heads he got from Greg and that he didn’t screw me or steal my heads. I knew he wouldn’t do that, and I never suggested he would. But that’s apparently how Joe Donovan found out about the flow numbers.
As of that date, as far as I know only 4 people on the planet knew about the two sets of bad flow numbers: Kevin, Greg, Joe and me. That’s it. They were never published online. Nobody ever said anything negative about Greg or his heads. Nothing. We kept it between ourselves, offline. It was not “spread all around the Viper world” as stated.
At some point after that, Greg and Kevin agreed to have yet another shop flow the heads. Those numbers, although still not quite as high as the flow sheet said, were much closer to what they were supposed to be. At that point, the matter was dropped. I still decided to go with a set of JM Stage 3 heads instead of the Greg Good heads for a number of reasons not related to the flow nubmers.
The car is obviously back together and making good power. 962 rwhp in NC. 912 RWHP in Kansas City with less timing on a hotter day. 9.9 @ 144 in the quarter on it’s fourth pass ever, and being driven by me.
There were never any “phony” flow sheets. There was never any “slander spread all over the Viper community”. What happened, happened. Those are the facts. They were my heads, so I know.
I never had any animus towards Greg Good, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to accuse a tuner of falsely and maliciously forging or doctoring documents when that didn’t happen. Nor is it appropriate to accuse someone of slander when it didn’t happen. I have been on the receiving end of having someone conspire to “skew” dyno numbers to screw me and make me look bad and it is very disconcerting.
It’s unfortunate that it has come down to this...that people almost necessarily have to take sides. I’m the customer. I shouldn’t have to be on anyone’s side. I simply pay for a product or service and expect to get it. I got what I paid for from Underground Racing. In fact, I got more than I paid for from them. I probably got what I paid for from Greg Good. The last set of numbers show that he pretty much delivered what he said he would. But the name calling, the bashing, the accusations and the bullshit AE’s all being used in a pointed effort to hurt a particular business (namely Underground Racing) is way over the line.
I, too, refused to believe that Greg Good was actually Lonely K&N. I just couldn’t believe a head porter with a good business reputation would stoop that low as to intentionally try to damage another company’s business. I was VERY disappointed to learn that’s the kind of person I had chosen to do business with initially.
That’s the story.
