Embryos, stem cell research, Ron Reagan and those f*ckin' Democrats!

Emanon · July 27th, 2004, 10:29 PM

All I have to say is holy hell. Did anyone listen to Ron Reagans speech?

First I need to say this about the man, he is an exceptional speaker, has a mssive stage presence and a seemingly powerful command of the english language. But now, I gotta say it, fuck him. No, not him, his ideas.

His speech came off - atleast to me and the audience, judging by their standing ovation - that the government pulled the plug on stem cell research as we were on the verge of a cure. That is horse shit. Very few palces have the ability to do the things he was talking about. Growing stem cells and injecting them into your brain? They have trouble performing regular operations with out infection. Then we go on to the egg with nucleus removed. I wthough the farthest this study has ever gone was 8 divisions? Or was that the attempted human clone? In any case, it is not nearly as far along as he seemed to project.

And his word choice in some segments scared me. He reaffirmed several time that these embryos were not fetuses, but he did acknowledge their inhernt potention to -under differnt circumstances- develop into a human. He said THEY do not have finger and toes, THEY do not have a spine and brain THEY, THEY, THEY. Where was "it". They is a term used TO REFER TO HUMANS OR ATLEAST A LIVING ITEM! If "they" dont feel, breath, move or live then why aren't "they" an "it"?

And my final vent off comes from his statement that "We cannot allow the theology of a few to" ruin the lives of others. This has nothing to do with theology, this has to do with the destruction of a potnetial human being. ANY politician, democrats included, would agree that ALL humans are worthy of respect and the same oppourtunities to the fact THEY ARE HUMAN. So why shouldn't these "embryos" be allowed to develop.

Play "god" does not turn out well. You cannot fuck around with stuff like this. I am all about going "gung ho" on the eradication of Parkinsons, Alzeihmers, Diabetes etc. etc. but in the time it would take you to develop the machinery and science to make this workable, you could easily, and I stress EASILY, come further in the science of drug therapy.

This is scary. And the democrats are wanting to pour money into this. Dp they care about education, homeland security or welfare? They say they do, but then why do they support this shit when education is an OPEN topic, that is LEGAL to fix?

We are in for a stormy for years if Fuckjob and the iron maiden get elected. :fist:

Oh yea: Discuss, please!

Mike From Fl · July 27th, 2004, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryL

He said THEY do not have finger and toes, THEY do not have a spine and brain THEY, THEY, THEY. Where was "it". They is a term used TO REFER TO HUMANS OR ATLEAST A LIVING ITEM! If "they" dont feel, breath, move or live then why aren't "they" an "it"?

I'm not getting involved in this debate, but the word "they" or "them" would be the proper plural term for "it".

mrob · July 27th, 2004, 11:10 PM

actually alot of good things have happened as a result of stem cell research and the possibilities are endless.

Emanon · July 27th, 2004, 11:11 PM

He wasnt referring to them in the plural, he started with "An Embryo..." THAT is a SINGULAR.

Why wont ANYONE get involved in this thread damnit?! We have alot of intelligent poeple, lets hear some comments!

Mike From Fl · July 27th, 2004, 11:19 PM

The reason you don't have everyone jumping on this one is that even the hard-core conservatives and anti-abortionist are not too sure about this issue. Many of them may be agreeing with Ron Jr. but would rather not admit it.

mrob · July 27th, 2004, 11:25 PM

I freely admit I am against abortion but support stem cell research

Emanon · July 27th, 2004, 11:30 PM

Mrob, if you wouldnt mind elucidating on your reasoning?

How is it that you seperate:

a fertalized embryo, that is one containing a comeplte nucleus of 26 chromosomes that has the ability to grow, differentiate and form a human

from a female egg with a nucleus of 26 chromosomes that has the ability to grow and differntiate eventually forming a human?

Please note: I am in no way trying to seditious, I just think I am missing where you are coming from. And PLEASE DONT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY, but you do see sex as a necessity for a human to be concieved? Maybe that is what I am not getting?

mrob · July 27th, 2004, 11:49 PM

a fertalized embryo is a baby.. a female egg is well a egg.. I pass one each month down the shitter and I have millions and millions of them.

no sex is not a nessesity to concieve and I don't care for the part about destroying a embryo but its happening regardless of if I like it or not every day in the abortion clinic's. I hate it but I want cures too.. I know I can't have my cake and eat it too but I am damn sure gonna try.

Emanon · July 27th, 2004, 11:52 PM

IS it the word "egg" that is making it ok? I REALLY am not trying to come across be berating ro anything, but you do understand that the "egg" divides and replicates itself, on its OWN volition, just like a fertilized egg, only it has one chromosome donor instead of 2.

EDIT: should have been 2, I dont think many people, except SoCal, are lucky enough to have 3 donors [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img]

mrob · July 27th, 2004, 11:55 PM

yes I understand.. I also understand that every month one of those egg's gets wasted.. I also understand that if I was smart I'd go harvest a bunch of them and sell em for 10 grand each. Maybe I just take them for granted but unfertilized "egg" equals tampon to me.

Emanon · July 27th, 2004, 11:59 PM

but the egg you are "wasting" is not the same as the egg int he dish. Your wasted egg has 13 chomosomes, the egg in the dish, that is being destroyed, has 26. It is complete, you single gamete is not.

In fact that is a good example:

Your egg= gamete
Embryo/ fetus = somatic cell (for all intents and purposes, please dont argue I do understand it is not a TRUE somatic cell)
fertilized "egg" in lab = somatic cell

You analogy, Mrob, falls short. Maybe I am just not getting it.

I would love to see a well written, clearly though out explanation as to why "egg" does not equal a fetus/embryo/ fertilized egg in a woman.

**Jeff M** · July 28th, 2004, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryL

but the egg you are "wasting" is not the same as the egg int he dish. Your wasted egg has 13 chomosomes, the egg in the dish, that is being destroyed, has 26. It is complete, you single gamete is not.

In fact that is a good example:

Your egg= gamete
Embryo/ fetus = somatic cell (for all intents and purposes, please dont argue I do understand it is not a TRUE somatic cell)
fertilized "egg" in lab = somatic cell

You analogy, Mrob, falls short. Maybe I am just not getting it.

I would love to see a well written, clearly though out explanation as to why "egg" does not equal a fetus/embryo/ fertilized egg in a woman.

[img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/headscratch[/img]

Emanon · July 28th, 2004, 12:03 AM

Why are you scratching your head? What was confusing?

mrob · July 28th, 2004, 12:05 AM

well because egg is 13 chromosomes and a embryo is 26.. Read my second post. I hate that an embryo is destroyed but its happening every day at the abortion clinics. You asked about egg.. I answered about egg.

**Jeff M** · July 28th, 2004, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryL

Why are you scratching your head? What was confusing?

Just giving ya a hard time. Getting all "Bill Nye" on us! [img]/images/graemlins/laughing.gif[/img]

Emanon · July 28th, 2004, 12:07 AM

Ok, that was my fault in semantics, i was using "egg" to refer to the lab embryo artificailly inseminated with 26 chromosomes from a single donor.

But now I am on the same page as you!

Mike From Fl · July 28th, 2004, 12:09 AM

All this talk about eggs is putting me in the mood for an omlet!

Emanon · July 28th, 2004, 12:11 AM

:::Sigh::: So much for the educated discussion. Thanks Mike!

**IWantOne** · July 28th, 2004, 07:23 PM

Just for the record it is Embryontic Stem Cell Research. Stem cells can be found in only in the embryo not just the egg. Stem Cells are also in the cord blood (the umbilical cord) but must be retrieved at the time of delivery.

www.bedfordresearch.org

SnowMann · July 28th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryL

..that the government pulled the plug on stem cell research as we were on the verge of a cure. That is horse shit. Very few palces have the ability to do the things he was talking about. Growing stem cells and injecting them into your brain? They have trouble performing regular operations with out infection. Then we go on to the egg with nucleus removed. I wthough the farthest this study has ever gone was 8 divisions? Or was that the attempted human clone? In any case, it is not nearly as far along as he seemed to project.

Not sure where you get your facts, but you are not correct. We were very close and now China has taken the torch and done AMAZING things with stem cell research. I have seen people be able to move parts of their body that they were not able to move before under going treatment. What Regan said was real, and needs to be heard.