Uh, right, those are really UNBIASED sources there!!!
You should be known ast "SRT Mike Defecator" for posting dumbass links like that.
Brilliant... when you call for proof, then are given proof, turn instead to namecalling on the guy that busted you. If you ever run for office, I'll tune in to see that debate...
"... and now the rebuttal from Viper"
Viper: "Zahara LIL fuck you LIL hahaha... you suck hash LIL"
The thing you failed to notice was the first site was reprinting a study done by some NJ university. Another was CNN. The last was my local newspaper. I backed it up - where is your backup, or is this dude better at making your points than you are --> :Lorry:
You must be kidding!?!! Your very first link is to a site called "Gay and Lesbian
Political Action and Support Groups" and then you demand to be taken seriously?!?!
OK, ignoring your first joke link, your second link of CNN, aka: Clinton News Network, as a fair and balanced news reporting agency immediately shows your lack of credibility.
RoadKill, any study done that does not have an agenda to push would be credible. For example JAMA or AMA
Mike, why shouldn't it be allowed? Because it's wrong. Plain and simple.
Why not just let boys marry grown men? Since sexual morality isn't high on your chain of what's right and wrong how about let's legalize kiddie porn. It's only pictures of naked boys. What's the big deal? Lets legalize Herion and Speed or Meth. People that take it are consenting adults..
The line HAS to be drawn somewhere in soceity and gay marriage is just crossing that line. It's a perversion. It teaches young people that homosexuality is ok. It teaches them that sexual immorality with another man is ok.
Where is the line drawn? Do we just let perversion run free? Do we let them do it in there own homes? Yes we do. Have we and do we put up with it? ABSOLUTELY. Do the homosexuals have the right to MAKE the U.S. and public accept their homosexual marriage. HELL NO.
There isn't anything that anyone could say in favor or a such a sick and animalistic behavior. Giving or letting someone have the right of sexual preference is different than making the law or your own country recognize it as a legal union and protected by rights.
Mike, why shouldn't it be allowed? Because it's wrong. Plain and simple.
Based on what? Remember, there is a seperation of church and state, so a morality-from-the-bible argument doesn't hold water. Why, legally, should it be wrong? I can't think of a single reason how it harms anyone in any way. I *can* think of cases where it is completely unfair however, and based on that, it should be allowed.
Quote:
Why not just let boys marry grown men?
I'm sure you see the difference. There is a huge difference between two adults deciding to do something and an adult taking advantage of a child who is not mentally developed enough to make a rational adult decision.
Quote:
Since sexual morality isn't high on your chain of what's right and wrong how about let's legalize kiddie porn. It's only pictures of naked boys. What's the big deal?
Same as above. And how can you compare two consenting mature adults who want to marry with taking advantage of children who don't know better than to do what an adult says. They are completely different, mostly because in kiddie porn, an individual is seriously harmed (the child). Who is harmed in a gay marriage???
Quote:
Lets legalize Herion and Speed or Meth. People that take it are consenting adults..
Again, it endangers society. I don't want to be driving next to a guy hopped up on meth, or worry about a crack addict carjacking me. Are you worried that gay people will somehow hurt you if they are allowed to marry? Nothing will be different, except we won't be discriminating against them anymore.
Quote:
The line HAS to be drawn somewhere in soceity and gay marriage is just crossing that line. It's a perversion. It teaches young people that homosexuality is ok. It teaches them that sexual immorality with another man is ok.
There is that word again, immorality. I wanted to keep religion out of this... and who is to say it's immoral? I don't think the government should be regulating what is moral and what is not. Who sets the standard? There are a lot of folks who would say premarital sex is immoral, or adultery is immoral, and some would say having more than one partner in your life is immoral. Why should the government get involved unless someone is being harmed or put at risk? I don't think homos are going to see a married couple and decide to "give it a shot". I never had to decide to be straight, I just like women. I never yearned for a man, and I'm not worried that my kids might decide to be gay if it was accepted. Maybe that is the root problem - some people feel they are choosing not to be gay whereas others of us just don't feel anything for anyone but the opposite sex?
Quote:
Where is the line drawn? Do we just let perversion run free? Do we let them do it in there own homes? Yes we do. Have we and do we put up with it? ABSOLUTELY. Do the homosexuals have the right to MAKE the U.S. and public accept their homosexual marriage. HELL NO.
I'm saying why don't they have the right to be treated equally. Doesn't the constitution grant that all men are created equal? So doesn't a man have the RIGHT to love another man without being judged by all of us? If not, maybe we should take that out of the constitution? So, actually, do homos have the RIGHT to be treated equally? Well, according to the law, yes they do!
Quote:
There isn't anything that anyone could say in favor or a such a sick and animalistic behavior.
How is it akin to animalistic behaviour? I think you're confusing what they DO (sex) with how they feel (love). Are you saying a woman can't love another woman? Of course they can. Every argument I've seen revolves around religion or someones disgust with 2 guys boning each other. I don't think about that aspect of it - I think most who can get over their insecurity about the whole sex thing can accept that these are people who love each other and want to get the same benefits as the rest of us. In other words, to be EQUAL.
Quote:
Giving or letting someone have the right of sexual preference is different than making the law or your own country recognize it as a legal union and protected by rights.
Well, what is being proposed is a law to BAN gay marriage. That's got little to do with a law allowing it. The bill of rights doesn't restrict freedoms, it grants them. Furthermore, the feds are *supposed* to stay out of states issues. I have no idea why anyone in the federal gov't feels they should get involved in this. And according to the law, gays are supposed to be equal to everyone else.
Gerald [/quote]
Viper,
I need to stop being 2 steps ahead of you, because you're having trouble keeping up when I'm just 1 step ahead. I said the first study was done by some college in New Jersey, and obviously that gay activist group posted it because they feel it furthers their cause. Ironically, you have not posted anything that supports your views. And you dismissed one of (if not the) largest news organizations as being in bed with clinton? If all these news sources are biased and lying, then surely you can come up with something better. Show me where the trend I mentioned is wrong? You can't. It's like arguing with a 7 year old... they can only reply "I know you are but what am I". So until you come up with something factual, you've already lost the argument.
USAF,
I said I read something - I think it was in a newspaper, and since I only read the WSJ, Wash post, and the local rag, I couldn't find the exact study. If you look at the links I posted, you will see there is a general trend towards younger people being in favor of same-sex marriage, and older folks against it. Every source I found has different numbers, but the trend is older folks are less in favor than younger folks. Want to say 10% of 50+ people are against it? Doesn't matter - just proves the point even more. Again, keep up man! [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
Maybe I am just weird, but I have absolutely no resentment towards homos at all. I honestly don't see why everyone is so freaked out about it. I feel the same way about racism and sexism. I just can't bring myself to dislike other races or think women are incapable because of gender. I dunno.. kinda liberating feeling though [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img]
Let's also allow the Polygamy crowd to marry and lets also allow the NAMBLA crowd to marry with the govts blessing you know same thing that the queers want otherwise it's discrimination. But I think that ONLY the poor victimized Homo's can be discriminated against, isn't that their rule.
Facts and Statistics About Homosexuals (with references)
Some statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle:
One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3).
One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime.
Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).
Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior" (16).
Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27).
Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population.
Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).
73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).
25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11).
Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex.
78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20).
Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10).
Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10).
50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10).
Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10).
Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population.
Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).
37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8).
41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms,
60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8).
Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8).
The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8).
The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).
Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8).
21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8).
50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18).
About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).
33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex, Homosexuals prey on children
(7).
There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States.
Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19).
73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).
Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22).
Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.
The homosexual agenda.
The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion.
Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American.
You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" (25).
Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27).
Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" (1).
Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness" (17).
The true number of homosexuals.
The Kinsey study of 1948, which homosexuals often cite to say that 10% of the population is homosexual, actually says that only 4% of the population is EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a disproportionate number of people who had been in jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies involving young boys and pedophiles. Information on Kinsey.
Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28). Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above.
Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?
The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24).
59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22).
49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where's the job discrimination?
Sexual Orientation
A phrase that has come up recently in this earth is "sexual orientation." This is a phrase made up by homosexuals to try to make themselves look less filthy than they really are. The purpose of the phrase is to take the spotlight from what these perverts do, and put it on the notion that they are just poor, mistreated people, who simply are attracted to members of the same sex - as if they aren't engaging in activity forbidden by God Almighty.
"Sexual orientation," as used today, has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah, right), but only refers to who or what a particular person is attracted to. If you think that people of other "sexual orientations" are just fine, let's see what other "sexual orientations" you would necessarily have to accept as wholesome and pure. If you're not going to discriminate based on "sexual orientation", then you must not discriminate against any of the following. If you discriminate against any of these, you're a hypocrite. These "sexual orientations" are generally known as "paraphilias", and are mental disorders - just like homosexuality used to be (29).
REFERENCES
(1) Advocate, 1985.
(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry.
(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.
(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299.
(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987.
(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.
(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.
(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA.
(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275.
(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.
(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254.
(12) Lesbian News, January 1994.
(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.
(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.
(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy
(16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.
(17) Newsweek, February 1993.
(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.
(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.
(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53.
(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk."
(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.
(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.
(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.
(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November, 1987.
(26) United States Census Bureau
(27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989.
(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp.
(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.
Mike, why shouldn't it be allowed? Because it's wrong. Plain and simple.
Based on what? Remember, there is a seperation of church and state, so a morality-from-the-bible argument doesn't hold water. Why, legally, should it be wrong? I can't think of a single reason how it harms anyone in any way. I *can* think of cases where it is completely unfair however, and based on that, it should be allowed.
Quote:
Why not just let boys marry grown men?
I'm sure you see the difference. There is a huge difference between two adults deciding to do something and an adult taking advantage of a child who is not mentally developed enough to make a rational adult decision.
Quote:
Since sexual morality isn't high on your chain of what's right and wrong how about let's legalize kiddie porn. It's only pictures of naked boys. What's the big deal?
Same as above. And how can you compare two consenting mature adults who want to marry with taking advantage of children who don't know better than to do what an adult says. They are completely different, mostly because in kiddie porn, an individual is seriously harmed (the child). Who is harmed in a gay marriage???
Quote:
Lets legalize Herion and Speed or Meth. People that take it are consenting adults..
Again, it endangers society. I don't want to be driving next to a guy hopped up on meth, or worry about a crack addict carjacking me. Are you worried that gay people will somehow hurt you if they are allowed to marry? Nothing will be different, except we won't be discriminating against them anymore.
Quote:
The line HAS to be drawn somewhere in soceity and gay marriage is just crossing that line. It's a perversion. It teaches young people that homosexuality is ok. It teaches them that sexual immorality with another man is ok.
There is that word again, immorality. I wanted to keep religion out of this... and who is to say it's immoral? I don't think the government should be regulating what is moral and what is not. Who sets the standard? There are a lot of folks who would say premarital sex is immoral, or adultery is immoral, and some would say having more than one partner in your life is immoral. Why should the government get involved unless someone is being harmed or put at risk? I don't think homos are going to see a married couple and decide to "give it a shot". I never had to decide to be straight, I just like women. I never yearned for a man, and I'm not worried that my kids might decide to be gay if it was accepted. Maybe that is the root problem - some people feel they are choosing not to be gay whereas others of us just don't feel anything for anyone but the opposite sex?
Quote:
Where is the line drawn? Do we just let perversion run free? Do we let them do it in there own homes? Yes we do. Have we and do we put up with it? ABSOLUTELY. Do the homosexuals have the right to MAKE the U.S. and public accept their homosexual marriage. HELL NO.
I'm saying why don't they have the right to be treated equally. Doesn't the constitution grant that all men are created equal? So doesn't a man have the RIGHT to love another man without being judged by all of us? If not, maybe we should take that out of the constitution? So, actually, do homos have the RIGHT to be treated equally? Well, according to the law, yes they do!
Quote:
There isn't anything that anyone could say in favor or a such a sick and animalistic behavior.
How is it akin to animalistic behaviour? I think you're confusing what they DO (sex) with how they feel (love). Are you saying a woman can't love another woman? Of course they can. Every argument I've seen revolves around religion or someones disgust with 2 guys boning each other. I don't think about that aspect of it - I think most who can get over their insecurity about the whole sex thing can accept that these are people who love each other and want to get the same benefits as the rest of us. In other words, to be EQUAL.
Quote:
Giving or letting someone have the right of sexual preference is different than making the law or your own country recognize it as a legal union and protected by rights.
Well, what is being proposed is a law to BAN gay marriage. That's got little to do with a law allowing it. The bill of rights doesn't restrict freedoms, it grants them. Furthermore, the feds are *supposed* to stay out of states issues. I have no idea why anyone in the federal gov't feels they should get involved in this. And according to the law, gays are supposed to be equal to everyone else.
Gerald
Viper,
I need to stop being 2 steps ahead of you, because you're having trouble keeping up when I'm just 1 step ahead. I said the first study was done by some college in New Jersey, and obviously that gay activist group posted it because they feel it furthers their cause. Ironically, you have not posted anything that supports your views. And you dismissed one of (if not the) largest news organizations as being in bed with clinton? If all these news sources are biased and lying, then surely you can come up with something better. Show me where the trend I mentioned is wrong? You can't. It's like arguing with a 7 year old... they can only reply "I know you are but what am I". So until you come up with something factual, you've already lost the argument.
USAF,
I said I read something - I think it was in a newspaper, and since I only read the WSJ, Wash post, and the local rag, I couldn't find the exact study. If you look at the links I posted, you will see there is a general trend towards younger people being in favor of same-sex marriage, and older folks against it. Every source I found has different numbers, but the trend is older folks are less in favor than younger folks. Want to say 10% of 50+ people are against it? Doesn't matter - just proves the point even more. Again, keep up man! [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img] [/quote]
Tell me Mike, where did I say "religion" I think your reading things that aren't there. Morality and religion are two different issues. Can an athiest know right from wrong? Is an athiest a good person? I think you have a nut stuck up your pooper ( [img]/images/graemlins/smiles[/img] ) regarding religion..let it go Mike, let it go... [img]/images/graemlins/supergrin.gif[/img]
