FALLUJAH, Iraq, Nov. 2 — A U.S. Chinook helicopter believed carrying dozens of soldiers to their leaves abroad was struck by a missile and crashed amid cornfields west of Baghdad on Sunday, witnesses and U.S. officials said. U.S. military command confirmed 13 were killed and more than 20 wounded.
“CURRENTLY 13 SOLDIERS are KIA (killed in action) and some 20 wounded,” a spokesman told Reuters. The attack caused the biggest single death toll among occupying troops since Saddam Hussein was toppled in April.
Meanwhile, other American soldiers were reported killed in ground attacks here and elsewhere in central Iraq, as insurgents pressed a campaign that has stepped up in recent days — a “tough week,” in the words of the U.S. occupation chief.
In Abu Ghraib, on Baghdad’s western edge, U.S. troops clashed with townspeople Sunday for the second time in three days, and witnesses reported casualties among both the Americans and Iraqis. There was no immediate official confirmation.
Witnesses south of Fallujah, 40 miles west of the capital, said they saw two missiles fired at the helicopter, which came down near the village of Hasi, 6 miles to the south. Fallujah is a center of Sunni Muslim resistance to the U.S. occupation.
“The Chinook was shot down by an unknown weapon,” a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said on condition of anonymity.
American military officials have repeatedly warned that hundreds of shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles remain unaccounted for in Iraq since the collapse of Saddam Hussein’s regime in April. Insurgents have fired on U.S. aircraft before, but this was the first known shootdown involving the Baghdad airport.
The helicopter was part of a formation of two Chinooks carrying more than 50 passengers to the U.S. base at the former Saddam International Airport, renamed Baghdad International.
“Our initial report is that they were being transported to BIA for R&R flights,” that is, rest and recreation leaves abroad, a U.S. command spokeswoman in Baghdad said. She said at least some were coming from Camp Ridgeway, believed to be an 82nd Airborne Division base in western Iraq.
Witnesses said the second copter hovered over the down craft for some minutes and then set down, apparently to try to help extinguish a fire, but the downed copter was destroyed.
At least a half-dozen Black Hawk helicopters later hovered over the area, and dozens of soldiers swarmed over the site. Injured were still being evacuated at least two hours later.
Local villagers displayed blackened pieces of wreckage to arriving reporters, and in nearby Fallujah townspeople celebrated on the streets. “This was a new lesson from the resistance, a lesson to the greedy aggressors,” said one Iraqi, who wouldn’t give his name. “They’ll never be safe until they get out of our country,” he said of the Americans.
Townspeople also reported a fresh attack on U.S. soldiers inside Fallujah, saying an explosion struck one vehicle in a convoy at about 9 a.m. Sunday. They claimed four soldiers died, but U.S. military sources said they couldn’t confirm the report.
BAGHDAD BLAST KILLS SOLDIER
In a separate incident, military sources said a soldier from the 1st Armored Division was killed just after midnight in an explosion in Baghdad.
In Abu Ghraib, local Iraqis said U.S. troops arrived Sunday morning and ordered people to disperse from the marketplace and remove what the Iraqis said were religious stickers from walls. Someone then tossed a grenade at the Americans, witnesses said, and the soldiers opened fire.
The U.S. command said it had no immediate information, but Iraqi witnesses said they believed three or four Americans were killed and six to seven Iraqis were wounded.
The presence of the portable anti-aircraft missiles has represented a significant threat for military aircraft and raised concerns over the security of the few commercial flights in and out of Baghdad International Airport. The U.S.-led coalition has offered rewards of $500 apiece to Iraqis who turn them in.
It was the third helicopter known to have been brought down by Iraq’s insurgents since President George W. Bush declared an end to major combat in Iraq on May 1.
A U.S. Army Blackhawk helicopter crash-landed Oct. 25 in Tikrit after being hit by an unknown weapon, injuring one crewmember. On June 12, a U.S. Army Apache attack helicopter was shot down by hostile fire in the western desert, and two crewmembers were rescued unhurt.
The Pentagon had announced Friday it was expanding the home leave program for troops in Iraq, to fly more soldiers out of the region each day and take them to more U.S. airports. As of Sunday, it said, the number of soldiers departing daily via a transit facility in neighboring Kuwait would be increased to 480, from 280.
The workhorse, 10-ton Chinook, which has a crew of four, is the military’s most versatile heavy-lift helicopter, used primarily for troop movements, transporting artillery and similar functions.
The shootdown of the Chinook came after what U.S. occupation chief L. Paul Bremer on Saturday called “a tough week” in Iraq, beginning with an insurgent rocket attack on Sunday against a Baghdad hotel housing hundreds of his Coalition Provisional Authority staff members. One was killed and 15 wounded in that attack.
A day later, four coordinated suicide bombings in Baghdad killed three dozen people and wounded more than 200, and that was followed by widespread rumors and leaflets threatening an escalation in the anti-U.S. resistance.
Attacks against U.S. forces had already stepped up in the previous week, to an average of 33 a day.
I'll take shit for this...but I think it's time we just get out. Take our heroes home and let it all fester over there. If they can rule themselves, that's great. If another militant terrorist government should arise, we will loose less lives bombing (from a distance) the shit out of them a second time. Enough lost American lives. Let them kill themselves....!
I'll take shit for this...but I think it's time we just get out. Take our heroes home and let it all fester over there. If they can rule themselves, that's great. If another militant terrorist government should arise, we will loose less lives bombing (from a distance) the shit out of them a second time. Enough lost American lives. Let them kill themselves....!
Bush never did find his weapons of mass destruction or a link from Saddam to Al Qaida. The U.N. should have gotten rid of Saddam on humanitarian reasons long ago when the the first Bush screwed up and didn't.
Iraqis want us out, our own soldiers want out, the American people want out.
Get out. Tell Iraq they are responsible for their own future and it better include collecting the $25 million reward for Saddam's head.
Iraqis want us out, our own soldiers want out, the American people want out.
Wrong. Wrong. Oh, and wrong. There is no consensus among any of those groups to leave. You can't just make shit up. If we could just pawn off our own maligned stats, I'd run with: "9 out of 10 blonde, blue-eyed, big canned gals can't get enough of Smackie. The other one was a dyke."
Let me guess, your motto is "If at first you can't succeed...quit. When the going gets tough, the tough...quit. Winners always quit and quitters always win!"
WAR I KNOW SMOKIN WANTED ME TO GLOSS YOU SUN RA KIT KAT, BUT I ONLY MAKE FUN OF GALS WITH WEIGHT PROBLEMS!!!!
I disagree whole-heartedly. Look at what history has taught us only 50 years ago with the reconstruction of Germany, Italy, and Japan. Did we loose 1000's or men after WWII-YES. Is it a regredable, yet nessesary evil-YES. Let's look further, even in our OWN civil war.....
Stop half-assing the war (ie as was done during Vietnam) and let our Generals and Admirals do what they're trained to do: Succeed.
If the US gets out now there will be an even bigger price to pay down the line.
I would shift responsibilities quickly to a truly international force with true multi lateral leadership i.e. the US isn't the sole leader (and conversely not solely responsible). That way the attacks will be against the world and some the the underlying anti-US sentiments may be somewhat defused. I'd also kick that Chalabi dude out of Iraq together with his cronies.
Finally i believe that it is really important that as many of the reconstruction contracts gets fulfilled by locals (and not halliburton etc.) because if Iraq quickly builds up their own economic infrastructure then it is more likely that they'll be a friendly ally to US interests. Make sure that american companies gets a piece of the action by making the contracts be contingent upon subctontracting with american corporations for parts and know-how not locally available. Basically, i think iraqi's can rebuild a classroom for children but i don't think the Iraqis can handle rebuilding a powerplant or a oil refinery.
Finally, some of the nightly raids and mass arrests must be handled differently. There must be a way of creating a intelligence network in there to replace the armed forced of america acting as a polic force in Iraq.
I'll take shit for this...but I think it's time we just get out. Take our heroes home and let it all fester over there. If they can rule themselves, that's great. If another militant terrorist government should arise, we will loose less lives bombing (from a distance) the shit out of them a second time. Enough lost American lives. Let them kill themselves....!
Bush never did find his weapons of mass destruction or a link from Saddam to Al Qaida. The U.N. should have gotten rid of Saddam on humanitarian reasons long ago when the the first Bush screwed up and didn't.
Iraqis want us out, our own soldiers want out, the American people want out.
Get out. Tell Iraq they are responsible for their own future and it better include collecting the $25 million reward for Saddam's head.
The first BUSH followed the mandate of the U.N., to liberate Kuwait.
Some Iraqis want us out, not the majority.
Our soldiers volunteer for a job, that is beyond normal, and can be difficult at times, but they follow orders, and do not make the policy.
I agree about getting us out of Iraq, and the rest of the Middle East, but for different reasons. And also telling those countries they are responsible for their futures, and then holding them accountable.
REDBEARD: I agree on the razing part, but for modern times, instead of buring it down to the ground, we should use neutron bombs, then move into the area.
REDBEARD: I agree on the razing part, but for modern times, instead of buring it down to the ground, we should use neutron bombs, then move into the area.
What History channel Bull shit do you Know about Neutron bombs???
Well, it has been a while since Nuclear Physics, but as I seem to recall, when detonated, it emits very little radiation, with a half-life of 15 minutes.
EDIT: Or was it 30 minutes.
EDIT:
Since the fusion reaction produces mostly neutrons and very little that is radioactive, the concept of a “clean” bomb has resulted: one having a small atomic trigger, a less fissionable tamper, and therefore less radioactive fallout. Carrying this progression further would result in the suggested neutron bomb,. which would have a minimum trigger and a nonfissionable tamper; there would be blast effects and a hail of lethal neutrons but almost no radioactive fallout; this theoretically would cause minimal physical damage to buildings and equipment but kill most living things.
EDIT: Fusion bombs designed to release neutrons rather than causing further fission reactions are called neutron bombs. Neutrons kill people, leaving the hardware and buildings intact.
Who the hell brought up a neutron bomb. If my memory fails me, it was deemed illegal in one of the treaties with the USSR, and they were never produced. If I remember right, was Carter in as president when it was first built. How can you use a weapon that was never produced or supposed to have been made.
I did as an alternate to razing. Even though during the Carter Administration, we abandoned the W-77 warhead, we went on to developed others. China's attempt to build their own neutron bombs have come from materials stolen from us.
We CANNOT leave. We MUST see this through. Iraq IS the battleground between freedom and terrorism. A true democracy established in the birthplace of humanity is what the terrorists and radical clerics fear above all else. Piss on the UN - gutless bastards.
I see the main difference between the war on terror and WW 2 this way: Entire nations were razed and reduced to smoking rubble. The will of the people to resist was utterly crushed. If they didn't submit to the new rules of occupation, they were doomed to a life of chaos and squallor. WW 1 didn't finish the job. WW 1 did not provide a suitable plan for the conquered to rebuild peacefully and productively, therefore creating conditions which were ripe for manipulation by the radical power junkies. The Marshal Plan in Europe and the McArthur Plan in Japan provided a framework from which to rebuild nations and develop a peaceful and productive populace after WW 2.
If we're serious about The War Against Terrorism, then we should be in Syria - where there are terrorist training camps and probably a self storage place with Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction.
